Future of modifieds

[JC26]

I think there should be more concern on the height difference from the bottom a-arm mount to the crossmember. I'm not a believer in these fab front clips on modifieds but if they are going to be allowed they should be checked to meet spec's of a stock front clip. Some where I read the difference is 3 1/2 inchs and when we was checking roll center on our Ellis chassis that is exactly what it measured, so don't let these fab clips get away with moving the mounting points of the lower arms. I tried looking up a lot of modified rules around the country and everywhere I seen was 78 inch width, maybe this 84 inch was to help the guys with the fab clips, not sure but like I said we don't need a fab clip in modifieds, you want to run one build a late model. Who's stupid idea was this to start this fab clips for modifieds, Ricky's or Dickies???

If I'm not mistaken John started allowing it back when he still owned Desoto as a cost effective way to replace a clip. Just like with everything else with racing it's gotten pushed to the limits and now it's out of hand.

[OldSchool+]

As long as the rules stay the same for a while and are consistent from track to track--a level playing field, in other words.

Factory clip, tube clip, ford a-frames, impala a-frames, small metric stuff, the cost is about the same regardless. Unless you have to do it repeatedly, and or watch another guy drive off into the sunset with different stuff, or you can't race because your car isn't legal... this week.

I will say a little prayer that Doug made the correct choice.

[openwm53]

To All

As long as the rules stay the same for a while and are consistent from track to track--a level playing field, in other words.

Factory clip, tube clip, ford a-frames, impala a-frames, small metric stuff, the cost is about the same regardless. Unless you have to do it repeatedly, and or watch another guy drive off into the sunset with different stuff, or you can't race because your car isn't legal... this week.

I will say a little prayer that Doug made the correct choice.

One thing that I will tell you is that stock frames are still available especially down here. I am proving that it can still be done. That is the only reason i have posted my stuff on here. In a previous post I showed that most every major car builder is only selling stock clip cars.

Oldschool........I dont think I made the wrong choice and will continue to be a pain in tech mans side as long as it needs to happen. I plan on showing the mod guys that a stock clips can get it done.

After all the research and all the things I have dug into it is clear that there should never been a fab clip introduced in our class. But if you run them they should get a weight penalty and the bolt height from cross member should be 3 1/2" no exceptions.

I know that every track promoter and every tech man and every owner knows about this subject. Its a shame that none of them have had the b#$%# to speak up on here.

[UREZ2PASS]

Doug, assuming you bend that stock clip at the first race and you are running for points, how long will it take you to find another clip, prep it, install it, and have the car ready to race again ?

It's a lot of work to get a stock clip ready, you've proven that point and well documented it. Thank you.

[openwm53]

EZ

If I dedicated 100% of my time it could happen in 5 or 6 days I guess. It depends on a lot of things. Unfortunately for me there is work and then family. The wife doesnt understand the long hours at the shop.

1. If you have to strip a entire car to get the clip
2. Degrease
3. Sandblast
4. cut chop prep
5. fit to exact measurements
6. weld,weld,weld
7. Depends on how many bolt on parts are destroyed..........steering ,gearbox, motor mounts, In my case the gear box drove the steering shaft into my header and broke the quickner in half
8. paint
9. set up

There are lots of variables. The fab clip eliminates alot of this hard work. or if you have plenty of money to drop it off and pick it up (not in my case).

I dont really have a problem with Fab clips as long as they are one type across the board. One set of measurements for all cars.......... They were never policed and as I stated before no cars were turned away. people exploited the gray area...........period

[UREZ2PASS]

If I dedicated 100% of my time it could happen in 5 or 6 days I guess. It depends on a lot of things. Unfortunately for me there is work and then family. The wife doesnt understand the long hours at the shop.

1. If you have to strip a entire car to get the clip
2. Degrease
3. Sandblast
4. cut chop prep
5. fit to exact measurements
6. weld,weld,weld
7. Depends on how many bolt on parts are destroyed..........steering ,gearbox, motor mounts, In my case the gear box drove the steering shaft into my header and broke the quickner in half
8. paint
9. set up

There are lots of variables. The fab clip eliminates alot of this hard work. or if you have plenty of money to drop it off and pick it up (not in my case).

I dont really have a problem with Fab clips as long as they are one type across the board. One set of measurements for all cars.......... They were never policed and as I stated before no cars were turned away. people exploited the gray area...........period

I've owned stock clip and a fabricated clip modifieds. One stock clip had the lower control arm pick-up points relocated. No need to expose the shop that built the car, I'm sure there's many others. That car is still racing in South Florida.

Personally, I think the fabricated clips are the way to go due to the correct geometry from the start and less expense.

I can't wait until a track does a real tech on the stock clips with a jig. Then the tears will flow. LOL !

So the argument against fabricated clips is really only the lower control arm pick-up points and a little weight savings.

There is a new article out about Dickies modified and the front end geometry. It revealed everything but his spring rates.

[openwm53]

EZ

I've owned stock clip and a fabricated clip modifieds. One stock clip had the lower control arm pick-up points relocated. No need to expose the shop that built the car, I'm sure there's many others. That car is still racing in South Florida.

Personally, I think the fabricated clips are the way to go due to the correct geometry from the start and less expense.

I can't wait until a track does a real tech on the stock clips with a jig. Then the tears will flow. LOL !

So the argument against fabricated clips is really only the lower control arm pick-up points and a little weight savings.

There is a new article out about Dickies modified and the front end geometry. It revealed everything but his spring rates.

I read the article. Its funny that Bob Bolles is defending him and is the person who did the set up work. As far as the tech he mentioned i personally know it was B.S. and its a slap in the face to the modified drivers. It made me and others puke a little............who tore down tha mgunnigil motor....Who? As for tech at the E.B.race they took his box after and i personally know the assistant tech man that night...........

Bob B is dam good and there is no doubt in my mind he got everything he could out of that particular clip. No doubt that they did their work on the car.

[OldSchool+]

Could not find the article.

Link or direction please...

Thx.

[UREZ2PASS]

Could not find the article.

Link or direction please...

Thx.

http://www.hotrod.com/features/1601-...rets-revealed/

[OldSchool+]

EZ--thank you.

A very in depth article, primarily about alignment, both ends.

Did not see a mention of clip-type, or what it was based on, or lower a-frame height.

Did see the importance of lack of camber change in the RF: "we evaluated the camber change after dive and roll and found the right front tire only lost 0.25 degree of camber after dive and roll."

Again, am thinking a narrower chassis with longer a-frames will promote less camber change than a wider chassis with shorter a-frames.

[openwm53]

Fear

I think the biggest fear is that we are turning our modifieds into late models. how far will it go ? Fab clips , 5000 dollar shocks, bump stops, straight cut trans, adjustable ball joints and center links, aluminum rear hubs. Whats next ? rack and pinion and all fab spindals ? Coil overs?

[openwm53]

Question

For Ricky Brooks or any other Tech man...............Since fab clips are allowed does that mean that I no longer have to extend my stock frame down the side of my car ? Its in the rules but hey.....were throwin that crap out with fab clips ? So can I only attach the front clip with no side runners?

[chassisdude]

Doug, assuming you bend that stock clip at the first race and you are running for points, how long will it take you to find another clip, prep it, install it, and have the car ready to race again ?

It's a lot of work to get a stock clip ready, you've proven that point and well documented it. Thank you.

If you compare both clips, the stock and the fab both being built and ready to weld on , it won't take any long welding on the stock clip than it will the fab clip. They already gave in a little and made the difference from bottom mounting holes to cross member 3 1/4 inch and the stock is 3 1/2 inch. I sure hope Ricky is going to be sliding under at lot of modifieds and do some measuring.

[openwm53]

Ricky

wont be teching at showtime, A-dale or desoto for regular events. Unless i am missing something he is the tech man for NSS. I think he has his hand in this six pack thing but IDK how he can do anything but follow the track rules.

[UREZ2PASS]

Doug, You can thank the tracks for the different rules and the resulting rules creep. I agree, it's out of the control of the racers, car owners, and drivers. However, getting the big three ( racers, car owners, and drivers ) to agree is impossible as well.

Florida tracks needs to adapt a single set of rules, it would benefit everyone. However, I don't ever see that happening, we are well past the point of no return.