Official Finish of the Charity Pro-Truck 100

[DeucesWild]

vantage

I think the real bottom line here is, what does the rule book say? It does not say that you can alter OEM stock parts. I believe it even says if it doesn't say you can do it then you can't! They( JW Trans) admits to altering stock parts therefore it is illegal according to the rule book. I think they should have pulled cranks and weighed them also but they were running pretty late and the beer muscles were starting to show up. Stopping when they did was probably a good call. They had really seen enough already to DQ the 37. I would have like to seen the weight of some of those cranks though. There was guy's DQed for ride height. If the block don't go under it is to low. They have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Everyone was measured in the same exact spot so it was fair for everyone. Tech was fair I thought. It was known what not to bring to tech zero tolerance on the rules in the book. The envelope was pushed, they took a chance and got caught that's all. That is racing. They can't blame anyone but themselves the way I see it.

[flvideo]

What happened to Michael Burns? I know he was there but I don't see him in the finish at all.

[DeucesWild]

Jw Trans

I have a turbo 350 trans that was purchased from a junkyard and freshened for 1/3 of the cost of what you are stating. I also bought a brand new converter from TCI in that cost. I have run that trans for a whole season without failure. I changed oil and filter 3 times like you stated. My total cost is no where near what you are stating it takes. I have a good cooler on it and that is the key. Keeping the fluid cool is what makes them live. Any tranny guy will tell you that heat is it's worst enemy. So saying you have to do all that drilling to make them live is nonsense. There is proof right here. It is 100% OEM stock!

[DeucesWild]

What happened to Michael Burns? I know he was there but I don't see him in the finish at all.

DQed for ride height in qualifying so had to go in to the last chance race to get in but his flexplate was broke and didn't have time to fix it. Loaded up and went home.

[Vantage]

Hey Dueces Wild

According to the rules I,m quite sure your transmission is illegal due to non stock clutch material. If this is not the case it is illegal because the converter is not stock. It is tci alterd. Like I said do you really want to go there.Someone posted on here that you can purchase stock look alike parts that are not stock internally. This is the case with your TCI converter.

[DeucesWild]

According to the rules I,m quite sure your transmission is illegal due to non stock clutch material. If this is not the case it is illegal because the converter is not stock. It is tci alterd. Like I said do you really want to go there.Someone posted on here that you can purchase stock look alike parts that are not stock internally. This is the case with your TCI converter.

That is where you are wrong. My transmission is OEM stock. To my knowledge they did not come stock with a 10" converter. The rule states a working 10" converter No lock up type converters allowed. So no matter where you buy it from as long as it is 10" and a working converter I believe it is legal. I don't believe they said his converter was illegal so where is this coming from?

[Vantage]

Deuces Wild

Just as you say the J.W. trannie is a stock alterred part, and therefore illegal, so is your TCI stock appearing alterred converter. Like I stated do we really want to go there? Nothing on these trucks is stock. They are sportsman class race cars not street stocks. whether you like the cost of the JW tranny or not, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You have a non stock alterred part in your trannie and according to your own words that is illegal.

[DeucesWild]

Just as you say the J.W. trannie is a stock alterred part, and therefore illegal, so is your TCI stock appearing alterred converter. Like I stated do we really want to go there? Nothing on these trucks is stock. They are sportsman class race cars not street stocks. whether you like the cost of the JW tranny or not, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You have a non stock alterred part in your trannie and according to your own words that is illegal.

Again and my final statement is that the rules do not say anything about a stock converter. The rule states must be a minimum of a 10" working converter. It does not say it has to be OEM stock like the transmission rule states. Read the rules before you make these comments. They are real clear!

[Vantage]

Deuces Wild

No it is not really as clear as you think. Your situation now is exactly what I was talking about when I stated when pieces such as the JW trannie have been accepted as they have for as long as they have it is wrong to call them wrong without a major rule change or clarification. The torque converter you stated you have as part of your transmission is a stock appearing alterred part same as the parts in the JW trannie. I was hoping someone would open this up. As you stated transmission parts should be stock and unaltered, your converter as part of your trannie is not a stock unalterred 10 inch converter. It is alterred by TCI just as the JW trannie is. The 37 team has done nothing wrong. They ran a trannie that has been accepted as legal in pro truck racing in florida for over 5 years. All of the alterations mentioned by tech JW has backed and given reasons for them. Carl and others responsible for teching these trucks have known for years whats in these JW trannies. Why does all this change on the particular race in question without prior rule changes and notification to the teams. Follow the money boys, Just follow the money.

[DeucesWild]

No it is not really as clear as you think. Your situation now is exactly what I was talking about when I stated when pieces such as the JW trannie have been accepted as they have for as long as they have it is wrong to call them wrong without a major rule change or clarification. The torque converter you stated you have as part of your transmission is a stock appearing alterred part same as the parts in the JW trannie. I was hoping someone would open this up. As you stated transmission parts should be stock and unaltered, your converter as part of your trannie is not a stock unalterred 10 inch converter. It is alterred by TCI just as the JW trannie is. The 37 team has done nothing wrong. They ran a trannie that has been accepted as legal in pro truck racing in florida for over 5 years. All of the alterations mentioned by tech JW has backed and given reasons for them. Carl and others responsible for teching these trucks have known for years whats in these JW trannies. Why does all this change on the particular race in question without prior rule changes and notification to the teams. Follow the money boys, Just follow the money.

Yes it is as clear as I think. Just read it not read into it like you are doing. I wouldn't say they have been accepted and allowed for 5 years prior just simply never teched before. The rules in place were enforced and they got caught. It's just that simple. That's been the problem with the trucks for a number of years now. The rules have not been enforced and now they are. It was talked about at the first drivers meeting at Auburndale (Triple Crown Race) and said then they will do tech so don't come illegal. Enforcement of the rules was the number one thing everyone wanted to see done. They are now doing that and a few people don't like it because they are getting caught oh well such is life! Again Nick is a very good shoe and don't need to be illegal to win races so why put him in that situation?

[chevyj31]

the shaft....

I ran trucks for 10 years, had a local guy build my tranny, it was a piece of junk, oiled down the track and cost me more trouble then it was worth!! A friend talked me into getting a JW trans, and it was the best thing I ever did. My truck did not run faster with it, it just would not cause me any problems anymore, keep in mind I had the same cooler on both. JW is a first class company, period!!! The transmission had nothing to do with Nick winning, he had his truck hooked up better then anyone on that given night. JW, Nick and Nelson all got the shaft, from two or three people that dont have a clue about what parts are legal, and what parts are not. The money should have been held and not paid out, until the matter was looked into more, period. The tech people basied there decision on the parts that were in the second place truck, to judge the first place truck!!!!! it is unbeliveable......

Nick and Nelson, racing is not fair sometimes, you guys won the race, hold your heads up high and move on.......

Dale E.

[Vantage]

Deuces Wild

Do you have a third final statement or is your second final statement going to be your final statement. As stated by the last poster, the 37 team got the shaft. If you are going to outlaw previously accepted pieces deamed legal by your own tech personel in the past, you owe the race teams some sort of notice or rule change beforehand. Just do the right thing, thats all it takes.This type of hassle is exactly why truck racing is where its at. No consistancy. If you don't have that, you have nothing. Its all about where your integrity level lies.All they have to do is look at all the facts, now that they have them, and right the wrong.

[dd38]

The holes in the output shaft that look gun drilled may in fact go deeper. I didn't make it a point in measuring everyone I did, just a few I first saw many years ago and they didn't seem to be that far in.

[gary laplant]

JUST MY THOUGHTS

The rules for the race below state only stock GM Turbo 350 and in rule B it says NO MODIFICATION per J & W comments here on line they called the part in question a modifed part from there place,

So reading all that has been posted I would think it is very clear that the part was illegal per the the rules and what has been posted by the car owner and J & W.


Transmission rule for the race
A, Only stock GM Turbo,350 Ford C4or C6 and Chrysler 904 or 727 automatic transmissions allowed.

B. Must have all forward and reverse gears working, No modifications.

C. Manual shift kits permitted

D. Reverse shift pattern permitted

E Torque Converter must be minimum diameter of 10 " and working

F. Transmission coolers ok. All cooling lines must be stell braided with screw on fittings

G. Drive Shaft. Steel driveshaft only. must be panted white

[nelson]

It was modified part to be a replicaed part that came out of a vega trans as per stated in J&W post so it`s just the same there is no wieght saving as per earlier post
Nelson Hernandez