Owners and Promoters--Want to Kill Your Show? Traction Control!

[openwm53]

Old school

So, in the shadows it seems that traction control is slowly wrapping its boring grip around short track racing.

Like a ghost, it is hard to spot, masking itself as a car that is simply "hooked up".

It is also reportedly hard to check for, and for some reason, while compression and weight and all that are routinely checked, traction control is something that some seem to deal with via "denial". That is, they pretend it is not there.

It produces boring, follow the leader, NASCAR cookie-cutter-track-like racing.

That will not sustain a good fan base, I gar-on-tee. Fans like cars coming out of the turns sideways--you know, like the modifieds used to years ago with less motor.

I will wager even the drivers don't like it, but they like losing to someone who has it even less.

So, NSS, Auburndale, Desoto, Showtime, & Citrus, for the common good, both your own and for the Sport, please consider taking action of some sort. Possibly something to try to solve collectively. If it goes well, common ground regarding other issues would also be a good thing, again for all, down the road.

And thank you, in advance, for that consideration.

You knew this would get my attention. Before you can catch cheating you must have a tech man willing to get down and dirty and be non biased. You need a tech man who can ask..........hey why is your wiring harness that big or actually know the schematic and trace all the wires. At 9, 10 or 11 pm they have to be willing to hold a few cars and work a little late. I agree that every track should mandate the type of box ( No Black Daytona boxes, or gold msd's) and have 5 brand new ones ready to swap out with the suspects. But the biggest thing is to enforce findings.......Not give wavers because you are a legend or well liked in the community. Your tech man has got to be backed by the track and his say be final................Pay a tech man well if he is indeed a good tech man.

[openwm53]

I think

I remember him well. One night he found our carburetor illegal in tech, he told us if I see it again I will take it. Low and behold we put it on the car at Lakeland the following season because we where struggling that weekend. We won the race and he did as promised, took it off, and hit it with a small ballpene hammer right in front of us then gave it back. He said I know I won't see it again now. He was very fair and not a a$$hole about it.

That he may be a dying breed. Other than one stand out. Tech sucks in central Florida..........period.

[OldSchool+]

Doug,

Do you think it would be helpful for a group of racers to put together (in writing) some information to help the tech men know exactly what to look for?

It seems to me that as soon as you have a separate box it is a slippery slope.

[OldSchool+]

"Tech sucks in central Florida..."--OWM53

Well, it is a thankless job. Racers by nature are rebels and do not like to have their stuff picked apart, much less DQd.

And the tech guys cannot possibly like being looked at as "bad guys".

So it is not exactly a birthday party regardless.

BUT, currently it would seem to be possible to be DQd for a weight (or etc) infraction, while the guy that inherits the win has undetected traction control.

Still, beyond all of that is the issue of what it does to the racing, which is dumbs it down and makes it less interesting.

[racin24dev]

Just look at the time sheets, if every laps is within a tenth there is a good chance the car has TC.

...I beg to differ

[OldSchool+]

Fair enough, Devin.

You are a smooth, fast, and consistent driver.

That said, what would you suggest to effectively deal with "the problem"?

[racin24dev]

Fair enough, Devin.

You are a smooth, fast, and consistent driver.

That said, what would you suggest to effectively deal with "the problem"?

If the problem really is there...which I have heard it is, then I think it won't be found because it's going to take deep pockets to search for it. In some cases (modifieds) they have check MSD boxes, Quick change covers, etc.,

In SLM's it's a different level...I think that cars are going to have to start getting cut apart, and that isn't going to happen...

[turnleft]

traction control

A couple of latemodel shows back Jessie Dutilly handled flawlessly at Desoto.The race was run during the daylight and everyone else was so sideways coming off turn four they were waving hello to their crew members back in the pits.Not ,Dutilly. Now I'm not back in the pits anymore and I hate to accuse anybody of anything but man the difference was so obvious in the way he handled like he was on a rail you just know something is being done that probably a little hokey.I like Dutilly but you just have to feel something is being done to tilt the playing field when you see something like that.

Dutily= good driver, works on his own car, understands the chassis, can adjust on chassis to make the car do what he wants. Has close to unlimited funds= very hard to beat. Sorry, but I think the guy deserves a lot of credit. You may have to cut off his right foot to beat him right now at adale and Desoto. Just my opinion... Vince P

[openwm53]

so....

"Tech sucks in central Florida..."--OWM53

Well, it is a thankless job. Racers by nature are rebels and do not like to have their stuff picked apart, much less DQd.

And the tech guys cannot possibly like being looked at as "bad guys".

So it is not exactly a birthday party regardless.

BUT, currently it would seem to be possible to be DQd for a weight (or etc) infraction, while the guy that inherits the win has undetected traction control.

Still, beyond all of that is the issue of what it does to the racing, which is dumbs it down and makes it less interesting.

That is the reason that I created a thread some time back........Pay a good tech man a good wage for his time. Pay him dam good for giving up Saturdays and Sundays. Pay him enough to make his wages thanks enough for keeping a sport honest. A umpire has a thankless job and he sometimes performs in front of millions of people...........But he is needed ? Is he part of the sport ? We truly don't need a guy to read a scale and roll a wheel under your car every single dam race. Most tech men are watching the same race as we are. They know who's dominating every time. If he truly looks and doesn't find anything than he should be the first to pat the racer on the back and stand tall for being the person keeping him honest. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe we should all just run whatever we want.....hell who's gonna catch ya ? There are people who push the envelope and their are people who tear it open.

[OldSchool+]

Doug,

Motivation aside, there have been comments from Devin and others to the effect of "they probably can't find it if they wanted to".

Given those thoughts, what rules and/or tech changes do you see as being effective to mitigate the problem?

[zerofor]

Dutily= good driver, works on his own car, understands the chassis, can adjust on chassis to make the car do what he wants. Has close to unlimited funds= very hard to beat. Sorry, but I think the guy deserves a lot of credit. You may have to cut off his right foot to beat him right now at adale and Desoto. Just my opinion... Vince P

And that very well could be.Once again I'm not back in the pit's anymore and can't say anything for sure because I have no direct knowledge of it. You just see something like that and it makes you scratch your head and say huh.

[openwm53]

Old school

Doug,

Motivation aside, there have been comments from Devin and others to the effect of "they probably can't find it if they wanted to".

Given those thoughts, what rules and/or tech changes do you see as being effective to mitigate the problem?

I do not know all the ways traction control is used. I have heard that brakes are used, I don't know what Devin mentioned about the rear end. But commonly it is retarding the timing so not to slip tires. You see the adds in the late model books all the time.....Who is it Davis traction Control I think. I think the only wat to police it is to swap out boxes. Send them out. If they are illegal than the team lost thousands of dollars and make it public. And I mean public. Hell maybe Bob Bolles can do an article on that one in Circle Track since supposedly his cars box was taken ?

[OldSchool+]

Maybe. There have been articles in Circle Track in the past that make me wonder how objective they are.

Nobody likes a "rat" and nobody likes to be a rat (at least I certainly don't).

But if the non TC guys can get as much figured as they can, sharing that information, either publicly or privately with tech, might be something to consider.

[modmini55]

On some tc devices it is as small as a cigarette lighter. The tech guy needs to be at the car before anyone else at the end of the race! and make sure it doesn't get handed off to crew member which I have seen before!

[Jason R]

traction control

Maybe a race track should invest in one, and the tech man should test it in a car or 2. I'm sure there would be some people out there willing to test. Record some data. I don't believe it is gonna take a mid pack car and make them a front runner.