Thanks from New Smyrna Speedway

[UREZ2PASS]

Mr South, I agree with you 100% that the competition should be equal in a combined series. I lost that perspective along the way. My gratitude to you for explaining you points of view professionally.

[Don Nerone]

EZ and tommy both get it.
Dont know about EZ but tommy has been a low buget super late team that has won as many races as anyone with hard work over the years.
He can not buy carbs ane emgines every time someone gets a new idea for some rules..
Mr south i get the combined idea and agin at alburndale it a good idea but at a real latemodel track crates should race crates because there is not a cheep fix and if you all keep on you will break it agin.
ask tommy what kind of new engine he wants to buy.

And in the post before i said ( yes its my falt) so dont do it agin.

don62

[Don Nerone]

Don a good crate is around $8500 and a good super is around $18000 plus you need the dry sump system. There is no way to do what you said. Get real and at least supply SOME facts.

And please read all of the post. Every one refers to the "bigger tracks". This has nothing to do with Adale. Get with the program Don. I know you joined in a little late but it is all here to read thru. Please do.

If you will read post #25 you will see where I suggested a weight adjustment. Not adding weight to any car just changing the way that the "handicap weight" is add to a car. There is no cost associated with moving lead around on a racecar. A super stills weights 2850. They still have the same carb. You just change to a minimum right side weight. It is not rocket science and it cost nothing. Don. It can be fixed. And its easy. Or they could take your mentality and think "it can not be fixed" and sit on your thumb and do nothing and we will just keep our cars on jack stands. It is that mentality that is the problem.

I have offered a simple and cost effective way to try and level the playing by field. It would be a step in the right direction anyway. Or we could just sit back and think like The Don thinks. We know how good that works already. Don you need to have an open mine.

Ok you win change the rules to fit your crate so you can win and then anderson will bring one and you wont win anymore but everyone will think that it takes a crate to win. if they can aford one great and if not then you loose a few more teams... go fix it .Why would i care?

don62

[tom77hmstd]

Crates limit you too much where you can run. Super specs are the way to go everywhere but Fl. because of the weight penelties. You cannot make a 425 hp engine equal to a 600hp engine no matter how hard you try. the limeted spec seems like the right choice right now at $11500. Although I personally like dry sump engines better.

[MJM10]

Mr South, you are absolutely correct. When a "Crate/Pro Late Model" runs with the limiteds at NSS we get a weight break because of the HP difference. In the FUPS they weigh the same...how does this make any sense? This is the reason I have not run any of these races (I live in Jacksonville)...I wouldn't stand a chance because of the HP.

Lets forget record setting times during speed weeks and base it on real numbers...if you look back during speedweeks the crate late models were running somewhat comparable numbers to the LLM's and weighed less. I believe Jason Boyd ran low 18's in the LLM but got tossed that night for tampering with the motor, after that they were somewhat close throughout the field. Now drop 100-200lbs off the limiteds for the Promoter series making them the same weight but with a 100hp advantage and where does that leave a crate late model?

Don Nerone...your comment about ASA is an opinion and I respect that but here is mine...go out to Five Flags and go to the Pro Late Model races. Last race we had 26 cars, the one before that was 25. Mobile is the same way. Crate racing may be dead at the tracks over here (eastern FL) but it is certainly not dead. These are some of the best races I have seen. Last year at the Snowflake 100 at 5 flags they had almost 70 Pro late Models show up to qualify...I don't think I need to say anything about car attendance over here it speaks for itself, especially the LLM class, but even the supers have a hard time getting over 20 cars in a big race. And how about speedweeks at NSS last year...did anyone notice the car counts for the crate late model class? Especially compared to the LLM's, I'm amazed that after that they didn't just switch to crate cars.

I don't know how to say this but you're wrong, and so is whoever said that tire wear makes up for the wieght difference, that is ridiculous. I agree with Mr South and if they change the rules to make it a fair race for the crates I will start going to them, otherwise I will make the haul to 5 flags or enjoy the occasional NSS 50 lappers because the way it sits now there is no point in going with a ASA/PLM/Crate late Model.

[Don Nerone]

OK 5 flag speedway is one of thosr places that HP is the last thing you need.
When they were arguing the engine rules the old timers were laughing. we outlawed the 6 cl car from runing there .the tire ware was everything and a little light car could go 75 lape and a super could go 30. at NSS tirs ware is not a factor. It has a lot of grip and 5 flags has no grip.
There is a lot to the story than what each of you have and want for your team. We get that but to make rules for the others takes a lot of info and though. Whats good for alburndale might not work for NSS.
I rember the tire test that all the racers wanted to run at the 1/2 mile. we tested and the driver came in in 5 lape and said are you trying to kill me. Those typ of gusses cant keep going on.
Not saying that anyone is right or wrong just takt time to look from the other side.
Rember i dint even have a do in this hunt but can now say what i want.
RULE CHANG IS BAD!!!!

Don62

[mr south 59]

MJM10. Thanks. I guess you really have to know what is going on to know what this is all about. You have said what just about every other crate owner says. Unless Fups changes something I will race else ware. You understand what I an talking about when I say to add the "handicap weight" on the right side of the car. Right? It should be a work in progress. All cars should weight 2700 lbs and 58 left plus right side handicap weight. A super has 150 lbs of handicap weight on them. If they just add that 150 lbs to the right side weight that would make them 2850. It would be 55 left. If that isnt enough add more. If it is to much take some back off. That isn't that big of a deal. Is it? They need to do something.

I would bet if they did this the crates and the supers would run together. The limiteds would probalily start winning on the bigger tracks than. But that is ok it is a work in progress. They might have to add 50-75 lbs of handicap weight on the right side. That would be closer to their rules anyway.

What ever it takes to level out the field. We know it is not working the way it was meant to work and they knew from the beginning that they may have to adjust the weight. Who many races in a row does a super have to win before they realize? It isn't a big rule change. It isn't even a weight change. Just a left side percentage change. That will equal things out real quick. And cheap. Free.

[Winger]

Wow, a very civil thread with good points made by everyone. I even understood Don's points. There seems to be 2 distinct topics here. One is having a combined series with equal cars and that was the original topic. Mr. South and MJM10 have made good arguments on that topic. The other topic seems to be whether you should have a combined series or instead have distinctly separate series for the different motors. EZ and Don have made points on this topic. I'm inclined to agree with them, however with a caveat. Will Florida racing support the separate series and it appears they haven't. My argument for the separate series is the payoff. Why should the guys that are willing to spend unlimited amount of dollars for a legal engine make compromises to those that aren't willing to? If they do, they are racing for the same purse but the investment is much different. In theory, it would be great if all different motor series could have sufficient car counts to put on good shows on their own. If they can't do it on their own, it should be survival of the fittest. The classes that can't support themselves should disappear. There are too many classes in racing already and racing would benefit from losing some. It's too bad for the teams that would have to convert their cars or get out of racing but it would be better for racing in general. Sure it would be great for all cars to run in the same series such as FUPS but why should the better funded teams make compromises? It could also be stated the other way. If the crate series has the better car count and can support itself, the Supers should disappear and lose their investment.
Again, I think this thread split into two topics and I've primarily addressed just one of them. However, there have been very good points made on all sides and I'd like to see the thread continue in a civil manner.

[Bigbuck]

A fan

Being primarily a fan, I admit, I do not have the knowledge most of you do. But The entire thread has been about motors, weight, cost, owners etc. While my knowledge is limited here, I
AM an expert on one thing. The races are NOT nearly as good as they were just a few yrs ago. When 15, say late models or whatever you call them today start A big race, there is usuall 7-8 cars tops that finish, MAYBE on the lead lap. That is boring racing to me the fan. I remember the first Super Late race I watched at NSS had almost 40cars start. this was probably 05 or so. I phoned my wife and told her I had just witnessed the best race I had ever seen, including cup. And at that time I was a huge cup fan. I was helping someone in a mini stock, which ran aroun 10 or more cars on a weekly basis. We had a ball, running our race and watching the rest. A little bickering but basically no fighting. Now we have to combine 2-3 classes to get 15 or so cars. I doont know what's wrong but so far the fix doesn't seem to be working.
I hear rumors, probably all it is, that there's consideration of joining Strictly stocks, super stocks and sportsmen? Now THAT sounds like a hand full to me!! Hope something works out soon, I miss the old days from only 4-5 yrs ago.

[Winger]

Being primarily a fan, I admit, I do not have the knowledge most of you do. But The entire thread has been about motors, weight, cost, owners etc. While my knowledge is limited here, I
AM an expert on one thing. The races are NOT nearly as good as they were just a few yrs ago. When 15, say late models or whatever you call them today start A big race, there is usuall 7-8 cars tops that finish, MAYBE on the lead lap. That is boring racing to me the fan. I remember the first Super Late race I watched at NSS had almost 40cars start. this was probably 05 or so. I phoned my wife and told her I had just witnessed the best race I had ever seen, including cup. And at that time I was a huge cup fan. I was helping someone in a mini stock, which ran aroun 10 or more cars on a weekly basis. We had a ball, running our race and watching the rest. A little bickering but basically no fighting. Now we have to combine 2-3 classes to get 15 or so cars. I doont know what's wrong but so far the fix doesn't seem to be working.
I hear rumors, probably all it is, that there's consideration of joining Strictly stocks, super stocks and sportsmen? Now THAT sounds like a hand full to me!! Hope something works out soon, I miss the old days from only 4-5 yrs ago.

Tuna, you generalize and lump everyone into one bait bucket. Go to some other tracks and watch some different racing. If it's not working for you at NSS or Orlando, try Citrus. They seem to be putting on decent shows and you might be pleasantly surprised at how things are there. Try taking in some dirt shows. There are several tracks that offer decent shows now. Bubba Raceway is tops right now. Travel to their shows. Catch a UDLMCS race at Volusia if you don't want to travel as far. There is decent racing out there. The racing at BRP is as good as it is anywhere in the country right now. As for saying the drivers aren't as good as they were 5 years ago, that's an argument you can have all day, with all generations, and no one will win. Have you thought that the drivers you watched 5 years ago are possibly racing somewhere else now? I know you'll come back by saying many of them are parked, but there are plenty of good racers out there. You just have to get off you ass and away from the computer and go look for them. They aren't going to come to your computer screen looking for you.

[Bigbuck]

Tuna, you generalize and lump everyone into one bait bucket. Go to some other tracks and watch some different racing. If it's not working for you at NSS or Orlando, try Citrus. They seem to be putting on decent shows and you might be pleasantly surprised at how things are there. Try taking in some dirt shows. There are several tracks that offer decent shows now. Bubba Raceway is tops right now. Travel to their shows. Catch a UDLMCS race at Volusia if you don't want to travel as far. There is decent racing out there. The racing at BRP is as good as it is anywhere in the country right now. As for saying the drivers aren't as good as they were 5 years ago, that's an argument you can have all day, with all generations, and no one will win. Have you thought that the drivers you watched 5 years ago are possibly racing somewhere else now? I know you'll come back by saying many of them are parked, but there are plenty of good racers out there. You just have to get off you ass and away from the computer and go look for them. They aren't going to come to your computer screen looking for you.

Winger, where did I say the " Drivers" or " Racers" are not as good as they ever were, again I've Beemer misquoted, but I'm used to that. I said The races, or at least MEANT the races Reny neRly as good as 5 yrs ag. I admitted I did not know why. Your words " Some parked their cars" not mine ,although yes lots have, I know them, I see them, I talk to them. I do intend to go to some different tracks sometime, as far as Orlando, haven't been there in 3 yrs, NSS only maybe 6 times in two yrs. All I said was it's a shame it's not the way it was. Pls don't juatbassume because Tuna posted something he's bashing someone, I was not. You have some very good points. Maybe someday I'll be ready to drive 2-3 hrs each way, right now I'm not ready. Like I said, I hope it improves, but until the field is leveled a little, I doubt it will, hope I'm wrong. Oh, and why did you have to be a wise ass about my ass and computer? I can think of no track in FL racing Tues night at 12:00 P.M.
Sorry if it offends you that I spend 20mina a day on here more than you. After all, I'm trying to catch Carol in # of posts, remember?

[Winger]

Winger, where did I say the " Drivers" or " Racers" are not as good as they ever were, again I've Beemer misquoted, but I'm used to that. I said The races, or at least MEANT the races Reny neRly as good as 5 yrs ag. I admitted I did not know why. Your words " Some parked their cars" not mine ,although yes lots have, I know them, I see them, I talk to them. I do intend to go to some different tracks sometime, as far as Orlando, haven't been there in 3 yrs, NSS only maybe 6 times in two yrs. All I said was it's a shame it's not the way it was. Pls don't juatbassume because Tuna posted something he's bashing someone, I was not. You have some very good points. Maybe someday I'll be ready to drive 2-3 hrs each way, right now I'm not ready. Like I said, I hope it improves, but until the field is leveled a little, I doubt it will, hope I'm wrong. Oh, and why did you have to be a wise ass about my ass and computer? I can think of no track in FL racing Tues night at 12:00 P.M.
Sorry if it offends you that I spend 20mina a day on here more than you. After all, I'm trying to catch Carol in # of posts, remember?

My eyes aren't as good as they were 5 years ago. My bad. I did misread and misquote you. Sorry about that. I've lived down here over 6 years now and visited for many years previously. It's only in the last 2 months that I've finally seen regular Saturday night racing as good as I was use to in NY. That has been at BRP. So I can honestly say the racing I'm seeing now is better than I saw 5 years ago.
Sometimes I like to be a wise ass and I know you do also. That's why I made the statement. I figure you can dish it out, you should be able to take it. LOL
I'm not offended by the amount of time you spend here. Just your ignorance on racing as a whole. Don't assume all racing is like you are seeing at your local track. Sorry, I'm not real diplomatic with my words. I was once told by a teacher I had that if you can't spell diarrhea you should write sh!t in your notebook. You know what it means. Because of a medical condition I can't think of the proper words to use at times.
As far as tracks racing in Florida on a Tuesday night, that's a shame. Just think how many more cars could be at a regular Saturday night race if special shows were held during the week nights. The best races in the country are actually held during the week. It's a shame it isn't done here. However, no track should be planning on racing after 12:00.

[Bigbuck]

My eyes aren't as good as they were 5 years ago. My bad. I did misread and misquote you. Sorry about that. I've lived down here over 6 years now and visited for many years previously. It's only in the last 2 months that I've finally seen regular Saturday night racing as good as I was use to in NY. That has been at BRP. So I can honestly say the racing I'm seeing now is better than I saw 5 years ago.
Sometimes I like to be a wise ass and I know you do also. That's why I made the statement. I figure you can dish it out, you should be able to take it. LOL
I'm not offended by the amount of time you spend here. Just your ignorance on racing as a whole. Don't assume all racing is like you are seeing at your local track. Sorry, I'm not real diplomatic with my words. I was once told by a teacher I had that if you can't spell diarrhea you should write sh!t in your notebook. You know what it means. Because of a medical condition I can't

think of the proper words to use at times.
As far as tracks racing in Florida on a Tuesday night, that's a shame. Just think

how many more cars could be at a regular Saturday night race if special

shows were held during the week nights. The best races in the country are
actually held during the week. It's a shame it isn't done here. However, no track should be planning on racing after 12:00.

Well hopefully if I keep reading here I'll become smart about racing like you! At least you admitted you were wrong. That's a rarity on here. But like my buddy Don says, This is only entertainment.

[jacko241]

Winger, I could not agree with you more. Classes that don't have enough support should go away. I have raced in the SCCA for decades, and any classes that don't maintain the minimum participation requirement, get reduced to regional status only. There are WAY too many classes now.

[Bigbuck]

Winger, I could not agree with you more. Classes that don't have enough support should go away. I have raced in the SCCA for decades, and any classes that don't maintain the minimum participation requirement, get reduced to regional status only. There are WAY too many classes now.

jacko, I agree also. I was only saying I wish it was like it was just 4-5 yrs ago. Do I know why it isn't? No, not really, like everyone else I have theories amd I'm sure we're all right to some degree. I hate to see classes "go away", but maybe thats the only answer, I hope not. I think the fans are tired of seeing only 5-6 cars in some of the weekly series. At NSS, and love it or hate it it really is the only one close enough for me to go to on a steady basis. That is a paved track. Maybe I DO need to try some dirt tracks, Voluisa is only half/three quarters a mile away. Or maybe they should only race every 2 weeks at NSS. The part of that I don't like is I believe whenever a business cuts back its the first step in ending. But with this crazy economy I don't really know. I know when we can only get 7 Sportsman 50 lapper, something is wrong. And in my opinion that race was 2 differant classes. I've heard they are talking about the possibility of combining Strictly stock, super stock and sportsman. May just be another rumor. Who wants to run a strictly or super and finish 5 laps down? I thought the strictly and super stock class was doing good, why kill them making them run with Sportsman?? That almost would be like Cup cars running with our late models. Anyhow, like I said, I hope it works out soon.