Thanks from New Smyrna Speedway

[Kim Brown]

Thank you to all of the race teams and fans who braved the weather forecast and came to New Smyrna last night for the Clyde Hart Memorial. We had some great racing in all of the divisions. Thanks again and we hope to see everyone next week. Have a great 4th of July weekend.

[Boneman]

I really liked the UP 100 lapper. As a fan in the stands, I didn't know who was a crate, a spec, a SLM or a whatever. All I saw was a damn competitive race.

I hope that the competitors feel that they got a fair shake, and that the rules allow the lower dollar cars to be competitive with the big buck guys.

[Mark Keeler]

Rex, from what I heard (don't take this as fact as I do not know for sure) but Tim Russell's #36 car was a Limited Late Model... If that is truly the case... I think we hit a home run as far as the rules package is concerned for this series!

[mr south 59]

Boneman, I wanted to reply to your coments but not sure it this is the right thread for this topic. But I will give it a shot.

I know what you mean. I asked the management where we have been racing to put a decal on our windshield to signify what kind of car we are. Something like a red, white, blue, or yellow 4inch round decal. As a competitor I would like to know what I am racing against also. It would help the fans and give the announcer more to talk about. I think it would help the show.

As for the rules package. At the smaller tracks like Citrus and Adale the crates have a slim to none chance at a win. At anything bigger the crates are just field fillers with these rules. The rules cant work at all of the tracks so they should have different rules at the bigger tracks. Kind of like PASS does. PASS realized that the crates don't stand a chance so they gave them ALL of the brakes possible. In PASS crates have " bee hive" springs. Crates get a bigger weight brake on the bigger tracks. They get crate tranny's And a few other little things that add up to making a crate completive. I think a crate won "The Race". The PASS rules work. I wouldn't call the Fups rule book a hone run by any means. A limited running with a super is nothing special when they can have the same hp and the limited gets a weight break. Why do you think he ran his limited??? He's not stupid. If it was a super running with a crate on a half mile or longer after 90 laps than you could say home run. or just say PASS rule book. This rule book is killing crate lates in Florida and killing the lower budgeted teams like myself that run a crate and don't have 18k to blow on an engine.

In the last few months I have "bought" everything to make my car Fups legal. It is all in the car now and seems to be ready to go. We might give it a shoot
at Orlando in Sept just to get our feet wet. But with the rules it's probably a slim shot at the win. If our schedule permit our best shot will be Citrus at the end of the year. I had to spend over 3k to make my car Fups legal. It's to bad I would have to spend another 18k to make it completive when it could be done with the rule book.

Does anyone know how many races have been won by a crate since FAST put out this rule book???? Really does anybody know?

[tammys chief]

i agree...

[Boneman]

Excellent point Mr. South. A quality audit is in order to see if the rules are playing out as hoped. The amount of whining from the racers can't be the only indication of their level of contentment. If it is found that all types of cars that are competitive, then that fact needs to be broadcast far and wide to attract more competitors.

The windshield decal that you suggested would also tip off tech instantly about the type of car they are approaching. Agreed, it would also be useful for the announcer and the informed fans, although lots of casual observers wouldn't know the difference and could care less.

[racer1989]

what was this car?

Im here to put this topic to rest the car that tim russell ran was a limited late model , it was the same car that Alexis Fenton drove over 4 yrs ago, The car has been sitting in the shop on jack stands waiting for someone to take her out on a date to the track. So many people think it all about horse power and it was shown on thursday it's about handling, it was great race by 2 great driver.

[BVS40FL]

Believe it or not

Excellent point Mr. South. A quality audit is in order to see if the rules are playing out as hoped. The amount of whining from the racers can't be the only indication of their level of contentment. If it is found that all types of cars that are competitive, then that fact needs to be broadcast far and wide to attract more competitors.

The windshield decal that you suggested would also tip off tech instantly about the type of car they are approaching. Agreed, it would also be useful for the announcer and the informed fans, although lots of casual observers wouldn't know the difference and could care less.

I was talking to an old friend yesterday who has raced since the 60's. He still has his last Late Model in his shop and hasn't had it on the track in years. The last time was Citrus at that old timers race thing. Now I still have two Mod minis left sitting and tons of parts. He suggested a trade.
Now you have me thinking. Not sure of the chassis type or engine type but... I do have a vinyl cutter and I could cover the entire car with 4" red,white,blue,and yellow dots . Ha , but I guess that would only be funny for one race.

( Never mind )

[mr south 59]

Don't get me wrong. Handling is a BIG part of it. But the way the rules are a llm can compete with a slm but a crate can't run with either of them on the bigger tracks. I don't own a super or limited engine but from what I have been told.......

A super is from around 550-615 hp at 2850lbs

A limited is from around 495-545 hp at 2700lbs

A crate is from around. 390-430 hp at 2700lbs
(this one I know because mine was 390 when it was dyno tuned stock aNd two years later we got a good carb and had it built by a certified builder. It dyno'ed under 425. It has certified seals in it)


So the way I see it, a good limited can run with a super down the straight because it is 150lbs lighter. And you CAN get a limited to handle as good or even better than your competition in the corners on a given day because of the 150 lbs. So I think the rules aren't to bad for the supers and the limiters.

They have the crates out in left field. If they had the rules something like the PASS series it gives the crates a little more hp a little acceleration and a little better weight break. And maybe they would have a little more cars.

A few years ago, the week this rule book came out I "voiced my opinion" and was told I was a complainer. A few months ago I when I was ask to talk to the Fups management about my crate. They told me to add an extra 50 more lbs and I could race. When I replied I got bashed by track owners and Fups management and clueless fan on this forum that have no idea what these rules really mean to a crate team. Like I said before. I could just send them my entry fee, tire and fuel money and stay home and save the damage and they could just send me start money. I will bet if you look at the crate finishes on the bigger tracks it is not much better than that.

I am not looking for a hand out just a fair shake. That's all. My car was built before this rule book. It was built so I could take my car to any state east of the Mississippi. It is legal. Some places I can even UPGRADE the engine parts to pick up hp. Here I have to de tune my motor. Do a 3k tranny swap. Have less of a weight break just so I can be thankful I have a place to race. It is really sad that with in a 6 HR radius of my house there is one track my car is legal.

Boneman you mention whining. I know you are not talking about my now but this is the problem around here. When someone like myself comes on here and voices their opinion it is conceived as whining or complaining. That is why none of the driver or owners come on here and voice. Look at the beating I take around here. I am only voicing my opinion and trying to let everybody see what a slm owner sees. It is no whining. It has been said that teams don't come on here if fear of being teched out. You see I don't worry about that. My shits legal.

[Alan]

Are limiteds really making that much hp? I few years ago when I ran one, we had a built 2bbl motor in it and the motor dyno'd at 455hp. are the limited spec motors making that much power?

[mr south 59]

Alan, I'm just going by what I was told. There is a bunch of different 2 and4 barrel combos. I know that the rules were based on supers 460 hp, limiters 445 hp, and crates 385 hp to the rear wheels. We all know that ain't the case. A stock spec super Is 595 hp out of the box as advertised from the builders. The only way that a super is going it dyno under 460 hp to the rear wheels in put a "magnet" on the throttle pedal stop.

As for the limited hp I have had limited owners boast off 550 hp. Just what I have been told. It used to be when crates ran with the limiters the limited were 56 LS and 2850 and the crates were 58 LS and 2700. At Adale it was 59 LS and 2600. I could never get my car that light with 59 LS. I don't know where the crates got the short end of the stick.

I would like to ask again about how many big track races have been won by a crate? Does a crate even have a top five? Anybody. I bet if you put the decals on the windshield it would paint a pretty picture.

P.S. Even in FAST my tranny was legal. What is Fups trying to do to the crates? If the lower budget teams can't compete because of the rules do we still race just to be an also ran????

[eracer52]

crates at smyrna

for those of u his year that say crates cant compete check speedweeks this year and last year for times some crates qualified in the 17.90 bracket with i beleive the same weight rules run by fups. last year sean bass ran a 17.88 austin kirkpatrick ran 17.86 in a legal crate at last years weights and ls percentages. it takes a complete package from motor/shocks/tires/setup/track.

the first combined race before fast series started brandon johnson ran 2nd to tim russel at smyrna he was in a crate car. so it can be done just go to work on your stuff.

[mr south 59]

eracer, I don't disagree with you about those times. The only thing was that was a year and a half ago. What time did the supers qualify at? The supers went 17.2. A crate could not run with a super back then either. The track surface was different and prepping was a must. If you will remember on the second night, my car drove around the outside of Bass, Johnson, and Nassee And the rest of them and turned fast time after we found out how the game was going to be played. It was a whole different deal back then and you are talking about the World Series, not the Fups. It is a whole different set of rules. Hell, even my car was legal at the World Series back then. This discussion is about if the Fups rules are equal thru the different classes. I don't think the rules are for the crates. Can you explain to us why you think they are? And I will also ask again.

How many crates have won on a bigger track in Fups??????

How many have gotten a top five????

Hell. How many have gotten top tens????


Look. I got a fast crate late. Nobody can deny that. We finished 2nd in ASA with the best crates in the country. We win with against supers and have won against every name you listed. They ran ASA also. But we also know the limitations of a legal crate late. I am saying with the way the rules are a crate is just an "also ran". I am sure that I am not the only crate sitting on jack stands because of the way the rules are. I think that if Fups had just used the rules that most of us had built our cars to they would have more crates. It works everywhere else in the country. I guess we are to close to the equator.

I for one will not take my car to a race when BEFORE I leave the house I already know that I don't stand a snow balls chance in hell of a win.

So again one more time. How many have won??? How many top 5's. I guess those guys running crates in Fups just don't work on their stuff either???? Somebody PLEASE find the stats.

[mr south 59]

P.S. I was just reading a pm from one of my fellow crate races that has corrected me on something I had posted in an earlier post. He told me that crates used to be 60 percent LS at Adale not 59 LS. Sorry 'bout that. I stand corrected.

[eracer52]

i stand corrected

was informed kirkpatrick qualified at 17.74 last year , im sorry . crates can run in this deal just HAVE TO work harder my point goes that the llm are at a disadvantage until now with what russel showed could be done, and as far as i know no crates have won but in fast series last year top crate was kirkpatrick finish 3rd auburndale with a bunch of tan top tens by others,(kirkpatrick only ran crate at auburndale) ran super with 2 barrel carb at most other tracks.