Thanks from New Smyrna Speedway

[mr south 59]

Eracer, thanks for the feed back. That just reenforces what I have been saying all along. So the best of the best crate in the series got one top 3 at Adale. And maybe all of the others crates got couple of top 10's. Like I said. A crate can't win on the big tracks under these rules. Probably can't get a top five at the big tracks.

You keep bringing up the World Series from a year and a half ago. We are trying to compair apples to apples. Didn't that car get dq'ed the first night after qualifying for prep and than also another night got dq'ed in tech after taking the win? Am I correct in saying that??? Look my car ran in the 17.8's that year also. But it wasn't an impound race. Prepping is not allowed in fups. And we were also allowed to run our crate trannys at the world series AND WE STILL ARE.

You mentioned the llm. When this set of rules came out they tried to change the weights to make the classes equal. They did these changes.

ASA Crates were 2700and 59 left. Now crate 2700 and 58 left. In FAST 2650 and 58 left

Limited lates Were 2950 and 56 left. Now llm 2700 and 58 left

Super lates were 2750 and 58 left. Now super 2850 and 58 left


It's hard to explain to the average fan what is going on here. They did a lot for the llms to catch up with the supers but they did nothing for the crates. What they need to do was gain about .25 seconds on the llms, lose about .5.5 second on the supers and leave the crates where they were. That would put the speed at NNS around 17.85 to about 18.0 at an impound race and all of the cars would have a chance. Not just some of them.

I will voice my opinion again. I do not think that a crate stands a snow balls chance hell at a win at the bigger tracks under the current rules. You can't out run 150 hp down the straights just because it is 150lbs heavier. That is simple math.


No hard feeling. It is just my views on the subject at I am passionate about.

[eracer52]

kirkpatrick was dqed first day after qualifying track width 1/8 inch to wide in front after passing pre qualifying tech. dqed after win after hard head on crash after checker flag when chip came out of msd box.

[mr south 59]

Yah. Like I said. That was a year and a half ago. That would have been Austin's first win. I know all about it. I was there. I was racing. I know what the rules were back then. We are not talking about the World Series. We are talking about the rules that blanket most of Florida.

We are talking about a super having about 150(35%) more hp than a crate and only being 150(6%) lbs heavier. Boneman stated " I hope that the competitors feel that they got a fair shake, and that the rules allow the lower dollar cars to be competitive with the big buck guys." I don't think it works at the bigger tracks. I think they could adjust the rules at the bigger tracks to bring the competition a lot closer together. Right now we can't run with the "big buck guys" on the big tracks. It has nothing to do with working on our stuff. It is simple math.

I was hoping that maybe an owner or a driver would weight in on these topics. But I can understand why nobody would reply on this board also. It a rough crowd around here.

The deal is, if they could get the best of the best super late model on it's best day, to struggle to lay down a lap a NSS at 17.90 than they would have something. At the last race the pole sitters car wasn't on his best day. He had another tenth or two it that car. Don't let him fool ya.

They could throw another 100 lbs on the supers and put them at 56 left at the big tracks other than Adale and Citrus or maybe do something with the crates like give us our crate stuff, a little more left side and shed a little lead. Then you would would have them low buck crates running with the big buck guys. Shit,,, one of them might even win a freakin race. Then you would really here some whining.

I am just giving my observation on the rules and how I feel as a car owner. I don't need to go to the track for practice. And I will not take my car to a race when I am that out hp'ed pound for pound when it is basically a drag race. A super carries about 5.1 lbs per hp. A crate carries about 6.3 lbs a hp. Again, just simple math. Both car are identical except the motor and weight. You do the math. JMO

[UREZ2PASS]

Mr south are you familiar with power to weight ratios ? If not you might want to familiarize yourself because the power to weight ratios would make it easy to argue your case. Good luck, hope to see you guys back on the track soon.

[mr south 59]

Sure I am. LOL I also know a little something laws of physics and acceleration. I do know that if two car are side by side and,

car "A" has a 6.3 lbs per hp ratio and, ( crate )

car "B" car has 5.1 lbs pre hp ratio and has the higher hp engine. ( super )


And both car are equal, as the rules are, car "b" will out accelerate car "A" from point Y(turn 4) to point Z(turn 1) every time the way I do the math.

EZ, I didn't come on here to argue and I'm not. But I would really like to here form someone with some "real" knowledge on the subject at hand. Do you really know if or if not a crate can win against a super on the big tracks?? Would you really take car "A"? Could you explain your theory how car "A" wins??? Just wondering??

[UREZ2PASS]

Sure I am. LOL I also know a little something laws of physics and acceleration. I do know that if two car are side by side and,

car "A" has a 6.3 lbs per hp ratio and, ( crate )

car "B" car has 5.1 lbs pre hp ratio and has the higher hp engine. ( super )


And both car are equal, as the rules are, car "b" will out accelerate car "A" from point Y(turn 4) to point Z(turn 1) every time the way I do the math.

EZ, I didn't come on here to argue and I'm not. But I would really like to here form someone with some "real" knowledge on the subject at hand. Do you really know if or if not a crate can win against a super on the big tracks?? Would you really take car "A"? Could you explain your theory how car "A" wins??? Just wondering??

I took the time to do the math by looking at the numbers you presented. Providing your numbers are correct, the super has the advantage in power to weight. The crate engine should have the advantage in tire wear due to the lighter weight, of course it depends on the track surface and the distance of the race to determine the advantage or if one exist at all.

Personally, I don't like the use of multiple engines. This goes back to the crate vs. built engine debate. In a perfect world, crates should race crates, and built should should race built in my opinion.

Like I said before, I hope to see you guys back racing soon.

[mr south 59]

EZ. So you are saying you agree. On the bigger track the tire ware does not out weight the hp. It is a help at the smaller tracks but not enough on the big tracks. If they made the hp to weight ratio the same for supers and crates than things would be equal. But that would not be fair to the big buck guys. Because they spent all of that money and they would be getting their lunch eaten by a crate. We can't let that happen now can we.

EZ. Just because we don't race Fups don't mean that we don't race something every weekend. We raced our late model a few weeks ago. We don't have a race scheduled for it again until October but that don't mean we aren't at the track in a race car. It just not an oval one. My son does 4 days a week at collage and does the other 3 days as a driving instructor. He does endurance training with "world class" driver every week. He does more miles on a track in one month than any other late model driver in florida does in a year. Father's day weekend he did over 1300 miles alone. In two weeks he gets to pilot an Audi R10. They are not even allowed to start it without the factory engineers on hand. The owner has a private 3 mile road coarse outside Clewiston. He has also been working on Mark Gibson's ARCA team. It is the weekends that we are not at the track that we look forward to. Come by and grab me when you see us at the track.

P.S. Wish my boy luck. He is working with Bobby Dotter, Butch Miller, and Brett Bodine. They are putting together a deal for next year starting April at Martinsville in the trucks. He is a very ambitious young man. I wish him luck.


Now back to the rules. Are they fair for all? I don't thing so.

[UREZ2PASS]

I heard about the truck deal through the grapevine, I hope it works out !

[Benny The Mule]

Mr South,

I hope all works out for Dustin.

About the crates, i have been so distant to asphalt racing lately it's pathetic.

Up here in the Carolinas the dirt crates give the supers a fit (win alot too) so they just keep the classes separate for regular shows.

I realize dirt is a totally different animal............

Fla needs a solid crate class or series and a solid built class or series.

Everyone would have a place to race without issues.

Spec motors should go out the window, kinda reminds me of a (built crate) as some call them...........

[mr south 59]

Thanks Benny! We can only hope for the best for our kids. God knows he has worked hard for it.

Hay thank for your opinion on the crates also. I know what you mean about crates on dirt. But on asphalt the crates are too out hp'ed buy the supers on the big tracks. With both cars being 58% left, 150 lbs just doesn't make that big of a difference to a super. Now if they put the extra 150 lbs that the supers got on the right side total weight than that might be a start if the right direction. For instance.

A crate carries a minimum of 1134 lbs right side at 2700 lbs.

A super carries a minimum of 1197 lbs right side at 2850 lbs.

EZ. That just gives the supers the extra 92 lbs to move around the car to help the set up. If they just put the extra 150 lbs on the right side weight the supers would weight 1289 lbs on the right side and still be only 2850 lbs. That would help in the theory you were shooting for. If they could get them CLOSE ON PAPER than we might stand a chance on the track.

It is easy for some people to just jump on here and say "work on your stuff". And there IS a BUNCH of things that THEY could do to bring the competition together. Than maybe the the supers would have to work on their stuff instead of those point and shoot setups.

Damn, know wonder the kid is taking mechanical engineering. I got a thing with numbers. Buy the way EZ you got the same number as post as I got. whats up with that??? And does this look like the (karnac) Class of '07???

[carolwicks]

Andrew

you know i wish Dustin the best. he has been such a competitor since he was a young boy. with you as his right hand, how could he go wrong. i have watched you and your family stand by Dustin for many yrs. perhaps the payoff has finally come full swing. My love and best wishes to you and your family. GO DUSTIN!
carolwicks aka oz

[UREZ2PASS]

Mr south it is odd that we have the same number of post and joined KARNAC the same year. Things that make you go hummmm

[mr south 59]

Carol. Thank you! We know how you feel about Dustin and my family and we have always appreciated ALL of your support. Most of the people on here have no idea what all you have done for many of the drivers in Florida. Dustin is a better person for what you have done for him. He wont ever forget it. Thank you again. We hope you and the kids are doing well.

Dustin's deal is actually moving along and picking up steam now that he knows that I can not do everything for him and he has to really do most of it on his own. His marketing team really believes in him and they are putting together an unbelievable presentation that any national company that is looking to get involved with NASCAR could not refuse. The marketing company mainly markets NHRA and the national jet car deal. (I got hooked up with them because I just finished Joe Amato's house) This is the company's first venture into NASCAR and they are so excited. But Dustin is a whole different topic. Back to the rules.

I know that there are more people out there with an opinion on the subject. Tammys chief agrees. Boneman thinks an audit is in order. BVS. Well he is just BVS. But man I really love his replies. Eracer remembers a guy at speed weeks two years ago that clicked off a fast lap. Got de'ed 2 days in a row. And know thinks that every crate can run with any super. You got EZ crunching the numbers. Benny seems to be having a good time in the dirt. And myself who has expressed my opinion on the rules and a few ways it help rectify the situation. Usually on this site when you voice your opinion a ton of people will tell you why you are wrong. I wonder why that has not happened. Things that make you go hummmmm.

P.S. EZ. When I did the ratio numbers I used the highest hp numbers for the crates and the lowest hp numbers for the supers as to sway numbers in the way of the supers favor as not to get called out. If I did the numbers the other it gives the supers an even bigger advantage. But I'm sure you figured that out before your second reply. So what do you come up with???

[UREZ2PASS]

I had it all on paper but my dog ate it ? I did not keep the scratch paper I jotted down the figures on but like you said, it is simple math to calculate the horsepower to weight ratios. There is no doubt that your numbers are correct. The only other thing that I can think of is maybe they are considering the torque differences and I don't have that data.

Playing devils advocate, would it be fair to weight down the built engines so the crates can compete ? One reason I like crate vs. crate and built vs. built. It takes away all the questions concerning equalizing the competition. You only need a good fair techman to keep everyone honest.

[mr south 59]

When these rules were written about two and a half years ago they figured the supers at 460 hp to the ground. They could pull two plug wires off of a good super and it will make more power than that. I don't know who they think they were kidding. EZ. It would be the only thing that would be fair. That is what this type of racing is all about and would make a better race. If it is not equal for all of the cars than why would all of the cars come.

I should go back and find the post from about two and a half years ago when I "complained" about these rules. They were written to favor a "certain" type of car and were written around those cars. I brought it up back then. The guys writing the rules weren't going to get beat. Especially buy a crate. And that was also written into the rules. It is time to change the rules and make it far for all so all will come.