Something New

[OldSchool+]

"We did full-field inverts for *years* at Tampa, St. Pete, Bradenton, and Inverness with the fast guys starting in the back every week, even in the heat races. It made for great *RACING* to watch Scarborough, Childers, Pletcher, Cope, and them guys come from the back of a 30+ car field every week inside of 30 laps."--Jimmy McKinley

And Bass, and Balough, and McInnis, and Anderson, and...

It was a great show every week!

I think the perspective is different. Fans love an inverted start, racers (understandably) love it straight up.

A thought--Busch Clash (or whatever it is lately) style, qualify 'em, then have options of straight up, first four, or first eight (or whatever) to be inverted be drawn for by a fan just before the feature.

[Jimmy McKinley]

I like the way they did it in Wisconsin and Illinois for a LOOOOOONG time:

Fast heat winner/fast qualifier comes out on the frontstretch during intermission. Draws a fan's ticket number. They come down on the track and roll a big die (1-6). Invert ten PLUS whatever comes up on the die.

[scottgarrity07]

I like the way they did it in Wisconsin and Illinois for a LOOOOOONG time:

Fast heat winner/fast qualifier comes out on the frontstretch during intermission. Draws a fan's ticket number. They come down on the track and roll a big die (1-6). Invert ten PLUS whatever comes up on the die.

They were doing that at Citrus a few years ago. Not sure why they stopped doing it. (Not the ten plus the roll of the dice, just the roll of the dice).

[scottgarrity07]

Scott NAILED it with one word... RESPECT

Here is my perception of the BIGGEST problem in racing today.... It's KIDS... Specifically kids who were brought up in a racing family and had everything handed to them. I personally have had to bust my ass off for everything I have, and every bit of knowledge I possess which I admit is not even close to some of those on this forum, and then Friday and Saturday I show up at the track and see these 17 year old kids with Late Models and Modifieds standing around with their thumb up their ass while their dad busts his ass on the car while the kid is on his cell phone or socializing...

When I was a kid, I would have given ANYTHING to have a father or relative in general in racing so I could spend every waking hour possible in the shop. Half of these kids have no respect for what they have. Respect to me, starts off the track and it begins with working on your own car. Once you understand what it takes to get these cars ready, and even more once you know what it's like to have to pay for them, you look at things quite differently. I am sure many guys here can relate to having to work their ass off to have the nice race cars they do be it a Modified, Sportsman, or even a Street Stock.

A lot of the kids in racing today don't seem to care because they don't have to work on the cars. They have no regard for the damage they cause by roughing up a guy. It's something I see a lot at the 10-15 tracks I visit per year... And it's quite honestly depressing. I'm not saying they are all like that, because I know some who work just as hard as anyone. But there are a lot.

That's one thing I can say is a HUGE difference between Northeast racing and Florida racing. I encountered some of what you talk about when I raced up there but not down here. Almost all of the young gentlemen I have raced against, met or watched down here race with respect. Daniel Conlin Jr, D.J. Farr, Chris Brannon, Devin McLeod, Daniel Webster, Will Caroll, Blaise Hetznecker, Michael Atwell and many others that slip my memory are all hungry young drivers BUT race others with respect AND work on their own stuff. That "privileged ungrateful disrespectful punk" syndrome doesn't seem to exist here. Honestly, I'd probably rather race against most of the younger guys here than some of the older guys!

[Phil Jacques]

That's one thing I can say is a HUGE difference between Northeast racing and Florida racing. I encountered some of what you talk about when I raced up there but not down here. Almost all of the young gentlemen I have raced against, met or watched down here race with respect. Daniel Conlin Jr, D.J. Farr, Chris Brannon, Devin McLeod, Daniel Webster, Will Caroll, Blaise Hetznecker, Michael Atwell and many others that slip my memory are all hungry young drivers BUT race others with respect AND work on their own stuff. That "privileged ungrateful disrespectful punk" syndrome doesn't seem to exist here. Honestly, I'd probably rather race against most of the younger guys here than some of the older guys!

Yeah, I have noticed that too in the few times I have gone to the track down there just as a spectator. People race respectfully and it's nice to see and part of why I want to come race there. I have spoken to D.J. Farr a number of times, one of the nicest guys I have met down there so far. It's a completely different culture in racing up here and it's the saddest thing to me. The sense of entitlement is so out of control. People just drive through each other here if they can not make the pass cleanly.

[OldSchool+]

Rich,

Thx for the report on the rest of the show.

Clearly, there is more to "car count" than tech, but good that they are getting a strong baseline.

[scottgarrity07]

I think the perspective is different. Fans love an inverted start, racers (understandably) love it straight up.

As a racer I'm not for starting straight up (and I don't think anybody other than the guy who sets fast time or wins the heat is for it also). The fun in racing is all about passing cars. Put everyone slower than me ahead of me and everyone faster than me behind me and wherever I finish I'll have to work my ass off for (and the fans will see PASSING!). However, full field inverts can pose problems if guys are really not up to speed at the front and sandbagging also becomes an issue.

One thing I cannot get my head around in FL is the lack of a handicapping system. In CT we had a system of using money won last 3 races (most $ won starts at the tail of the transfer cars from the heat). If you miss one of the last 3 races you get credit for win and a half money to eliminate sandbagging and reward the guys that come every race. If you won a race you start no better than 5th in the feature. We almost always ran heats and rarely (if ever) time trialed. A simpler system to use would be add your finishes last 3 races. Lowest total starts furthest back. Add zero if you miss a race. A handicapping system also rewards the guys who show up every race (helping car counts too!). I wish they'd implement something like this here. Even just drawing for starting position sometimes can put a fast guy up front alone and ruin the show.

[OldSchool+]

Back in the day at OSW & NSS I would check "the board" before each heat & feature race.

"Our" team's car could be on the pole, last, or anywhere in between. You never knew, and I never found anyone that understood any sort of system. We did not ask, as it was best to just accept the decisions at the time.

Growing up, there was a system at Orlando Speedway, and I used to know it by heart, but I do not recall it now (heavy sigh...).

I think the field was inverted for the feature per the points, and any outsiders needed to start last.

[Don Nerone]

In florida they used the 4 week avg system for many years.
yhis would unvert the firld to the max of 16 cars.
As time went on some raceers convenced the new promoters they would get more cars if they started straight up or drew the top however many.
most of the new promoters like a lot of the racers didn't understand the 4 week avg and didn't want to use the handicap system so it passed..
It took me a year to learn it but im slow...

don62

[scottgarrity07]

I always hear that. It's too confusing. C'mon people. It's second grade math. Johnny Hotshoe finished 1st, 1st and 4th. 1+1+4=6! Jimmy Parttime didn't show 2 weeks and then finished 2nd. 0+0+2=2! Jerry Backmarker finished 10th, 12th and 6th. 10+12+6=28! Jerry on the pole, Johnny second and Jimmy 3rd. Is this system really too hard to understand???

[Don Nerone]

I always hear that. It's too confusing. C'mon people. It's second grade math. Johnny Hotshoe finished 1st, 1st and 4th. 1+1+4=6! Jimmy Parttime didn't show 2 weeks and then finished 2nd. 0+0+2=2! Jerry Backmarker finished 10th, 12th and 6th. 10+12+6=28! Jerry on the pole, Johnny second and Jimmy 3rd. Is this system really too hard to understand???

You almost have it. If you miss 1 week u get a 0 If u miss 2 weeks you start in the rear.
Every week u drop a week and avg the last 4weeks . If u were there only 2 of those weeks then the average is buy those 2.
the av is for car and driver as a unit. driver or car change will start in the rear.
If you don't pass teq 2 weeks in the rear.
This will work if there is a good car count and a lot of cars that come every week.
Most of the drivers liked this but the ones that were louder won and the little guy lost out..

don62

[scottgarrity07]

Maybe more of the "little guys" would come back out if they felt they had a chance and racing was a little more affordable ( hint, hint Hoosier 800). I've always felt that with a good handicapping system and a good field "every dog has his day". Oh yeah, it's a better show for the fans too...

[Don Nerone]

Maybe more of the "little guys" would come back out if they felt they had a chance and racing was a little more affordable ( hint, hint Hoosier 800). I've always felt that with a good handicapping system and a good field "every dog has his day". Oh yeah, it's a better show for the fans too...

Hoosier 800 ?? same price and would last longer at the 1/4 mile tracks but not at any big tracks.
would junk them in 20 laps at NSS if you didn't crash first.
would be like ice racing.. the fans would like the crash so that might work..

don62

[Phil Jacques]

Hoosier 800 ?? same price and would last longer at the 1/4 mile tracks but not at any big tracks.
would junk them in 20 laps at NSS if you didn't crash first.
would be like ice racing.. the fans would like the crash so that might work..

don62

I'm sorry... What track do you run? Where do you have experience with the 800? That's right... YOU DON'T!

Same price? Nope, actually a little cheaper.

None of the big tracks? How about Stafford Motor Speedway up here a very fast and flat half mile, where you don't have banking to save your ass and probably one of the most abrasive track surfaces around. Guys are taking these tires and winning with 4 races on them.

Try again debbie downer...

[scottgarrity07]

Yeah Don, your way off on this one. You sure you don't get a cut of your son's tire sales??? Lol!