Mid-week shows don't work...?

[OldSchool+]

Well, it is a flippin' haul for me so I check the website and go when it looks interesting.

Typically they have some form of late models or modifieds, and the stands are almost always close to being full.

I am not a fan of 4 cylinder anythings, nor front wheel drive, but their mini-bombers put on a heck of a show, as do their street stocks.

There is always something crazy as well. Figure eights, drifing, golf cars, something.

If you run out of other requests, pray that Robert doesn't get run over.

[Phil Jacques]

"Sure it will be a select group of those who will be willing to sponsor, but they are out there."--Phil

And there it is. At the end of the day it all of it boils down into a smaller time deal. The money is there, but not as much, and it shows.

But hey, your point is well taken. I would love to see northern type shows.

I would love to get the Supermodifieds down here, or have a Florida division.

Meanwhile, IF you can command the sponorship, you can look good in a Super Late Model down here for sure.

I'm just tired of hearing everyone make excuses. If everyone is so concerned, stop blabbing on the forum and be proactive and get out, talk to tracks, promoters, etc etc and do something about it. Where there is a will, there IS a way.

People bitched about costs of tires for a while, and Scott Garrity stepped up and look what's happening there... I may be a loud mouthed asshole, but I tell the truth.

If I could afford to uproot, move everything down there today and do it myself, I would gladly do so.

I have a lot of care and passion for Florida racing... More so than Northern racing honestly... I want to see it succeed, but it's so easy for everyone to hop on here and complain rather than actually make an effort to better the racing themselves.

Let me pose this question... When a ship is sinking, and the captain does nothing... Do the passengers just sit there and wait for it to go under and complain about it? Or do they get off their high horse and actually do something to help themselves and everyone else if they can? Chew on that for a little bit...

[kendo]

Seekonk last night



The bottom 3 rows suck so no one ever really sits there anyway, many people stood up on the midway multiple rows deep rather than sit at the bottom.

.

Sweet...You wont even see a crowd like that at NSS on a Wednesday during speedweeks

[kendo]

You know, the "apples to oranges" comment comment cracks me up... . /rant

Priceless,coming from someone who bashes a promotors website over the color

[Phil Jacques]

Priceless,coming from someone who bashes a promotors website over the color

It's not bashing when you are stating facts. Like I said, you get what you put in just like with any business. The harder you work, the better the results. Argue that fact... You can't. It works the same for everything. The only tracks I honestly see putting in good effort seem to be NSS and Desoto. The key to getting a new fan base, is to let people know you are still there... Unfortunately, that takes more effort than the stroke of a keyboard and click of a mouse which is more than it seems some tracks do.

Call it bashing all you want, I call it being real.

[OldSchool+]

"Let me pose this question... When a ship is sinking, and the captain does nothing... Do the passengers just sit there and wait for it to go under and complain about it? Or do they get off their high horse and actually do something to help themselves and everyone else if they can? Chew on that for a little bit..."--PJ

I would suggest they look for the biggest piece of debris and hang on, as opposed to designing a bigger boat.

Translation--It is a self levelling deal.

The fans go where the best show is.

The racers go where the most cost effective show is.

The tracks pay what they can and try to survive.

It all shakes out simply as it does.

Scott's tire reccomendation is an exception--and a significant one, but...adoption of a new tire rule does not cost anyone anything, except the tire guy.

There is no "new money" being spent, and if the promoter(s) can get a bigger car count and maybe a larger crowd, that is potentially mo' money for no money--kind of a different thing.

ALL of that said (sorry), I admire your enthusiasm, Phil.

[Phil Jacques]

"Let me pose this question... When a ship is sinking, and the captain does nothing... Do the passengers just sit there and wait for it to go under and complain about it? Or do they get off their high horse and actually do something to help themselves and everyone else if they can? Chew on that for a little bit..."--PJ

I would suggest they look for the biggest piece of debris and hang on, as opposed to designing a bigger boat.

Translation--It is a self levelling deal.

The fans go where the best show is.

The racers go where the most cost effective show is.

The tracks pay what they can and try to survive.

It all shakes out simply as it does.

Scott's tire reccomendation is an exception--and a significant one, but...adoption of a new tire rule does not cost anyone anything, except the tire guy.

There is no "new money" being spent, and if the promoter(s) can get a bigger car count and maybe a larger crowd, that is potentially mo' money for no money--kind of a different thing.

ALL of that said (sorry), I admire your enthusiasm, Phil.

What fans? What racers? Doesn't seem there are a lot of either anymore. A promoter can do a lot about both.

The fans go where they think the best show will be, not where it "is"... You never know where the best show really is... This is racing, that's a crapshoot every week. You could be at Track A and it's nothing but boring single file racing that night with 15 cars per divsion, while over at Track B, with 7 cars per division, but great side by side but because Track A does the better promoting and advertising, they got your business... Get what I mean here?

The same thing goes with drivers... Most drivers I know don't really care about the huge payouts as much as they care about being treated fairly and equally. Big pay is just a bonus... So if Track A pays 250 to win but treats you well, makes fair calls and runs well, some may be more likely to go there over Track B which pays 350 to win, but is constantly riddled with controversy and bad calls/poor treatment.

[kendo]

It's not bashing when you are stating facts. Like I said, you get what you put in just like with any business. The harder you work, the better the results. Argue that fact... You can't. .

Yeah,I can...Do you own your own business ?
Fact...Running any business,race track,or promoting it successfully takes capital...Running a race track because of your love for racing combined with good intentions simply does not cut it.I can think of maybe 1 or 2 short track in Florida that are not operating on a week to week basis.A stroke of the keyboard or click of the mouse is one of few options when you are operating in the red.Anything else requires time or money,and time is $$$.

Florida is a seasonal service based economy with a bunch of low paying jobs.
You can make cost of living comparisons all you want,but the average wage down here is about 10k over poverty level.

[Phil Jacques]

Yeah,I can...Do you own your own business ?
Fact...Running any business,race track,or promoting it successfully takes capital...Running a race track because of your love for racing combined with good intentions simply does not cut it.I can think of maybe 1 or 2 short track in Florida that are not operating on a week to week basis.

Florida is a seasonal service based economy with a bunch of low paying jobs.
You can make cost of living comparisons all you want,but the average wage down here is about 10k over poverty level.

No I don't own my own business, but know very well how it goes. Gotta spend money, to make money. Again, try arguing me.

Florida is "season" in terms of tourism, which I agree is part of it... But there IS industry in FL in the major markets. Orlando, Miami, West Palm, Jacksonville, Tampa etc... NO different than Massachusetts where it's nothing but low paying jobs unless you travel to Springfield, Worcester, Boston etc. Again, EXCUSES.

A simple bit of literature for you here...

Florida has the eighteenth highest per capita income in the United States of America, at $21,557 (2000). Its personal per capita income is $30,446 (2003). Florida counties ranked by per capita income

Massachusetts is the third richest state in the United States of America, with a per capita income of $25,952 (2000) and a personal per capita income of $39,815 (2003)

I am sure these numbers have fluctuated over the years a bit, but on average, in Massachusetts you make about $5-10k more per year than in Florida. HOWEVER, start factoring in much higher taxes and more taxes in general than in Florida, cost of living, etc... It doesn't even out 100%, but it's a lot closer than you really stop to think about man.

Just simply providing you the facts which my opinions are based on to prove my arguments.

[OldSchool+]

"the average wage [in Fla.] is about 10k over poverty level."--Kendo

Probably less than that--the poor are getting richer all the time, excepting the "racing poor", of course.

[OldSchool+]

PJ,

The argument is that the BIG MONEY is up north. It is frequently old money, and it is used to grease the wheels of racing (man, that is bad...).

[OldSchool+]

"If I could afford to uproot, move everything down there today and do it myself, I would gladly do so."--PJ

There it is!

That is where most floridians are. I don't have the coin or what it takes to build a car and make all of your/Scott's/everyone else's sacrifices, but I would rent one if I had mo' money.

Am sure Scott would not mind buying tires if he had a large tire sponsor.

Bithlo would pay big purses weekly and probably get some new tunes for the MC if they had the coin.

[Matt Albee]

Yeah,I can...Do you own your own business ?
Fact...Running any business,race track,or promoting it successfully takes capital...Running a race track because of your love for racing combined with good intentions simply does not cut it.I can think of maybe 1 or 2 short track in Florida that are not operating on a week to week basis.A stroke of the keyboard or click of the mouse is one of few options when you are operating in the red.Anything else requires time or money,and time is $$$.

Florida is a seasonal service based economy with a bunch of low paying jobs.
You can make cost of living comparisons all you want,but the average wage down here is about 10k over poverty level.

Aren't you the guy who races without buying tires?
Earl Baltes would strongly disagree with you about the love of racing and good intentions motive not working when it comes to making it in the race track business. Actually, so would Bill France.
Like any business, you need to have proper capital to begin with, not lease a track, throw open the gates, and wait for the flood of fans and racers to show up.
Does the seasonal service industry in Florida buy all of the tickets to the races? No, they don't. In fact, i'd say the retirement community buys a lot of tickets to short track races and their income isn't based on seasonal changes in our state.

[Phil Jacques]

PJ,

The argument is that the BIG MONEY is up north. It is frequently old money, and it is used to grease the wheels of racing (man, that is bad...).

And MY argument is that BIG MONEY is everywhere, you just have to do the work to go out and find it. No, it's not easy. But if it was, everyone would have done it already. Do I think you'll see regular $10,000 open races in FL? No... But honestly, I don't think there are more than 2 tracks that have the infrastructure needed to support a race like that in the entire state on a "weekly" level.

I wish you guys knew Jim Shafer and what he does for modifieds up here. All he is, is a fan. He has no affiliation with any driver or track. Yet he goes out of his way to help put on big shows wherever he can to give back to the sport he loves. That's what a real promoter can do if they try.

[Phil Jacques]

"If I could afford to uproot, move everything down there today and do it myself, I would gladly do so."--PJ

There it is!

That is where most floridians are. I don't have the coin or what it takes to build a car and make all of your/Scott's/everyone else's sacrifices, but I would rent one if I had mo' money.

Am sure Scott would not mind buying tires if he had a large tire sponsor.

Bithlo would pay big purses weekly and probably get some new tunes for the MC if they had the coin.

We are in the same exact boat up here...