Racing the Outer Groove.

[Phil Jacques]

"...the car on the inside has to come to more of a stop and turn sharper than the outside car." --Phil

Mr. Phil, that is true, but what is also true is that --at a mostly one groove track--the poor soul that goes up there is a half a length or more behind the guy he was trying to pass by the time they are coming off the next turn.

Then he works like a dog while he both slowly goes to the back and also not-so-slowly loses his tires, all the while probably shedding tears in the car.

On the other hand, that big motor of yours may be offsetting all that!

I get what you're saying but I think it varies depending on car, driver and track conditions. Some nights are better than others and it all really depends at some tracks. Seekonk here is a track like that. In the spring and fall it's a narrow bottom feeder 1 groove track, but during the summer when it gets slick and greasy the groove widens out a bit. Obviously the temperature swings down there aren't AS drastic but I am sure temperature effects high and low groove racing down there also in similar ways, just not as drastically.

And for the record, no big motor here. Budget racing bro lol And I am by no means a weekly front runner. Only gotten lucky a couple times and run well. I call it addition by subtraction lol I am just out here having fun and still learning. I just prefer the high side. I find it more fun.

[Phil Jacques]

Volusia has 3 grooves,,,Yall need to broaden your horizons

I should convert my current Street Stock to a dirt car of some sort when I move down! lol I have the tube car I am building as a sportsman now. That could actually be a lot of fun!

[OldSchool+]

Phil,

Cut yourself some slack, man.

You are on the track, you have some wins.

From my perspective, that is an enviable position!

(yes, in fact, I think it is me that is envious...)

Win, lose, or draw you will be a welcome addition here in the 'ol sunshine state (pun intended).

[Phil Jacques]

Phil,

Cut yourself some slack, man.

You are on the track, you have some wins.

From my perspective, that is an enviable position!

(yes, in fact, I think it is me that is envious...)

Win, lose, or draw you will be a welcome addition here in the 'ol sunshine state (pun intended).

I think the wins I have ever noted may have been in Karts and Drag Racing I wish I had won on Ovals yet man. Big goal still. Actually I think my best oval finish was that P4 I spoke of yesterday which was merely circumstance due to wrecks lol

[OldSchool+]

Let me drive!

I guarantee it will be a half a second or better slower.

Then you will feel much better about yerself!

[Benny The Mule]

if you can get a fender under the guy in front of you, you are the low guy.

Wrong! That sounds like spotter racing BS. i raced with no mirror and no radio. your fender better be at my A post before you think you have the line.

I raced a car 1 full season with only a few scratches on the right body panels. The left side was destroyed. there is always a 2nd groove. It simply requires testicular fortitude.

[OldSchool+]

Yeah, good point--I should of said "door".

Interesting--you hit the guy in the rear quarter behind the wheelwell, you spun him out.

Get under him to his door, and "he came down on you".

So, what is that, about four feet of real estate in the middle, and it all is at speed...

It is disputed territory, but you sure see a lot of action on the bottom. Conversely speaking, when a guy passes on the outside he is typically more polite.

[openwm53]

Ok cant stand it anymore.....

I have seen a few threads lately talking about one groove tracks. I have been racing steady for the last ten years in central Florida. No Kindo not dirt.. I race modifieds and have raced sportsman. I started on hoosier slicks then goodyear slicks then;
1. good year grooved
2. American racer grooved
3. hoosier grooved
4.back to goodyear slicks and now finally where the mods should be a 8" hoosier slick.

I have raced at;

1. Punta Gorda
2. Citrus
3.Bronson
4.A-dale
5.Desoto
6. showtime

I have seen on here where people and some drivers say that all tracks have two grooves and that is B.S.
I seen on here that its because most of us drivers don't have the balls
And finally I seen on here that drivers/crews aren't doing there homework to get outside..........Maybe true at some places

Punta Gorda in 09 had two grooves with the goodyear slicks
A dale is a bottom dweller track but I have seen sportsman cars make an outside. Think I watched arron Williamson woop ass in I think 2010
Desoto has a second groove........Just watched LJ kick the fields but in the E.B. race on the outside.
Citrus has a two groove track and agree with Mike one of the best outsides.
Grimmer have to disagree with your video....the black patch from the treatment is not there...........that night they used rosin....but the stuff citrus used worked.... they used a-dale and showtime should give big john a call.

Finally Showtime...........Any and all of you that say we don't have the car or the balls to get around the outside I challenge you to wheel a open wheel mod around the outside of me or any of the ten fastest cars in florida and you will most likely lose a car length a lap. The best I seen yet so far is Kyle Bookmiller trying to drive the wheels off it out there. Jim H.......you have a mod ??? Showtimes track sat in 8 or 9 summers and cured without a race car on it. Im hoping that the track will eventually (come in) or YOHO needs to quit putting that crap on the track and get what T.C. told him to get from the beginning. Ok rants over........no balls...I call bull *%$*

[openwm53]

sorry Jim

It was Boney in another thread I disagree with....

[scottgarrity07]

I agree with everything you said 53. There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity and being "ballsy" enough to go to the outside (and getting freight trained to the back while burning your expensive tires up) is just plain dumb when the grip is not there. And either the track conditions are good enough out there or not. There also is no magic voodoo setup to run the outside. Either your car is handling well enough EVERYWHERE to enable a pass on the outside or it is not. It is simply about being that much better than the car you are trying to pass to be able to consider the outside. Most of the time the hard part is just getting along somebody on the outside. Once you are there then you can try to dictate the line of the driver on the bottom, hog him down and steal as much of the preferred line as possible.

[Jimmy McKinley]

Years ago, Tampa (Golden Gate) would go out before the track opened for practice and set up cones on the inside line through the corners. This more or less *forced* guys to try and set their cars up for the high line. Tampa was a "big" semi-banked 1/3 mile (long, sweeping corners and short straightaways), so you *had* to carry momentum anyways. With 25-30 Late Models *every* week, fast guys starting back, it made for *great* racing every week, and built up the outside groove from week to week.

Sunshine did a similar thing, but they would actually rosin up the top side. Additionally, the high side of the backstretch was "curved" and *banked* the same as the corners, with the low side just *flat*, so if you got on the outside of someone coming off of two, you just kept up the momentum down the straightaway.

Guys who use the top to get to the front impress me a whole lot more than someone riding around the bottom mirror-driving.

[openwm53]

Guys who use the top to get to the front impress me a whole lot more than someone riding around the bottom mirror-driving.


Agree with that statement..........As for mirrors.........well if your blocking most of us will try to knock your mirror off...........just sayin

[OldSchool+]

Mod53--What did T.C. tell Yoho to "get from the beginning"?

ps--There is also always a fine line between bravery & stupidity (no offense to anyone here, for sure). Some tracks, brave or not, you are going to negatively impact your race if you go up there.

[egspeedway]

Front runners don't need mirrors we never had one on the modified, late model and the go kart had no place to mount one. Use your ears and what's between them to know if you are being challenged, use your eyes to hit your marks on the track rather than the guy in front of you while your looking at the mirror. Might as well race with a cell as have a mirror. Ever see one on a sprint car.

[scottgarrity07]

On another thread a lot of people said that they were not cool with the Bump n Run. If you mirror drive you'd better EXPECT to get moved and not b*tch about it. There are always two lanes to run in when the punted blocker is sliding up into the 3rd groove! Don't get me started on the worst ones, the Choppers....