Racing the Outer Groove.

[Roadtrip]

I saw somewhere here yesterday, that there was no one groove racetracks, just few guys willing to go outside. Harry Gant was one who loved the wall, but I thought this was the place for stories about Florida guys who know how to get it done from outside. So here goes...
A few years back at Citrus, Mike Bresnahan was third coming down the backstretch, last lap. He caught the guy in second in turn 3, nailed it hard coming out of 4, and beat Andy Nichols to the line for a great win.
I'm sure you guys have many more, some that will bring a grin back to a few faces.

[scottgarrity07]

I was there that night. What a race! Thing is, that's when Citrus and Critter were using the "traction treatment" in the high groove. It made Citrus truly 2 groove. Actually, some thought the high groove was BETTER then. Don't know why they stopped using it and don't know why nobody else uses it. It works!

[Phil Jacques]

I was there that night. What a race! Thing is, that's when Citrus and Critter were using the "traction treatment" in the high groove. It made Citrus truly 2 groove. Actually, some thought the high groove was BETTER then. Don't know why they stopped using it and don't know why nobody else uses it. It works!

They use it at Stafford here. Made a freight train track a nice two groove track now.

I am curious why nobody actually tries to use the high side regardless of grip agents being put down. Is it the tracks, or the drivers?

[scottgarrity07]

Some people say "all tracks are two groove" or "set your car up for the high groove". Maybe on a slick but, from my point of view, not so much on treaded (grooved) tires. The outside in 3 and 4 at Citrus is real good, high speed tracks like NSS and Desoto (and Ellisville) always create passing lanes. The outside is better on restarts at NSS. The outside is not bad at Orlando (if you can get alongside). Showtime, Auburndale, Bronson and Three Palms (Punta Gorda) are all one groove bottom-feeder tracks that you most likely have to move people off the bottom to pass. That being said Daniel Webster works the outside at terrible Auburndale in a Super better than anyone I've seen. I say bring on the sauce!

[GRIMM25]

Here is a video from when Citrus put the traction treament on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ondKl3zdcoE

[OldSchool+]

The high side is the loooooooooooooong way around, and additionally, the low guy can always scrape you off coming out of the turn.

The low guy is in control of the situation. And if you can get a fender under the guy in front of you, you are the low guy.

[Phil Jacques]

I honestly prefer the high side especially at fast tracks. For me, I am able to have the car be set up a little looser. I am at least happy to hear the track that are closest to where I will be living soon have a decent high side

[OldSchool+]

Once years ago (& forgive me on ALL of the details) at a big race at what is now Showtime, LeeRoy Porter led most of the 200 laps.

Jimmy Cope was framming his way through the field, got put to the back early, and then muscled his way all the way through the field.

With less than 10 to go he was in second and there was a caution. Single file restart, of course.

Jimmy hit LeeRoy hard coming to the green and moved him up, and it was his spot and his race. LeeRoy went rediculously late into the corner, pitched it sideways like a dirt car, and Jimmy, suprised, hit him in the driver's door.

LeeRoy dirt-tracked it out of two, Jimmy's right front was pranged, and LeeRoy went on to the win.

And that, race fans, is one way to win from the outside!

[Phil Jacques]

The high side is the loooooooooooooong way around, and additionally, the low guy can always scrape you off coming out of the turn.

The low guy is in control of the situation. And if you can get a fender under the guy in front of you, you are the low guy.

It's the long way yes, BUT!!! If you are able to get your car working well up there, you are able to carry more momentum and more speed which ends up being the equalizer. That's always a very big IF though. In my opinion, at smaller tracks the low side binds the car up more than the high side does. The high side in theory should be advantageous at tracks 3/8 mi and smaller that have tighter turns because the car on the inside has to come to more of a stop and turn sharper than the outside car. Just my theory on why the high side is my favorite lol I do agree that the guy down low is in control though. But if you have guys you can race with trustingly, that should not be an issue. Another big IF.

[OldSchool+]

"...especially at fast tracks."--PJ

Yep, the big tracks are generally multi groove, and the high side will work.

(See:NASCAR--even Bristol, now {sniff})

[Mike Bresnahan]

I'm sure I'm biased because it's my home track and we typically run better there, but to me Citrus is by far the best side by side track in the state. The configuration makes it very hard for a slower car to protect both lanes. If they drive conservative as not to slip up you can usually get a good look outside into one. If they're sliding up a bit you can take a high entry and late apex to drive up under them off turns 2&4... But "getting there" is often easier than fully completing the pass, the guy on the outside can hold you down off 4 and make you get loose off or the guy on the inside can move you up just a bit on entry of 1&3 and take that line away... Both ends are totally different and you have to move around to find traction.

Truth be told that's probably the one track where if I draw the pole I'm choosing the outside..

[OldSchool+]

"...the car on the inside has to come to more of a stop and turn sharper than the outside car." --Phil

Mr. Phil, that is true, but what is also true is that --at a mostly one groove track--the poor soul that goes up there is a half a length or more behind the guy he was trying to pass by the time they are coming off the next turn.

Then he works like a dog while he both slowly goes to the back and also not-so-slowly loses his tires, all the while probably shedding tears in the car.

On the other hand, that big motor of yours may be offsetting all that!

[OldSchool+]

Mike B--

True at Citrus, but as you know that is an odd little place in that the cars almost universally push coming off, especially coming out of four, even if set up to be "loose".

I never could figure it--it looks "normal" enough, but the racing is unique.

If it wasn't for the brutal sun melting me (& Dad) in the stands, I would make the drive more often.

[kendo]

Volusia has 3 grooves,,,Yall need to broaden your horizons

[OldSchool+]

Kendo,

No fair cheating w/dirt!

Ironically, frequently on dirt it is reversed, and the low side is the short, slick, losing way around!

It's always sumthin'...