Typical OSW

[OldSchool+]

Semi-serious at best:

At the end of the night, start them all--slowest to fastest.

You get passed, pull into the infield. Last guy on the track is the "winner".

"Hilljack Pursuit Racing!"

[Phil Jacques]

Semi-serious at best:

At the end of the night, start them all--slowest to fastest.

You get passed, pull into the infield. Last guy on the track is the "winner".

"Hilljack Pursuit Racing!"

I wish there was a LIKE button on the forum lol

4 divisions is a good show especially when you have 15 cars or more in each division. I think THAT should be the goal of every track in FL is find the formula to attract a minimum of 15 cars. Some seem almost content with 5-8 cars... That's not entertaining to me and I would get up and leave. And for the divisions that only have 1-3 cars show up a night... Give the people a refund and send them home. Sorry, but if you are allowing a race of 1-3 cars, you should be ashamed. I see results showing 1 car features from time to time and I want to scream... NOBODY want's to watch that.

One HUGE thing that could really help car counts is unified rules packages.

Make the rules the same for all tracks. It sounds almost counterproductive at first, but would make it much easier for people to come to a track with minimal changes for most. I think everyone could benefit but so many track promoters/managers have their heads stuck up their A$$ with their self righteous attitudes that we will likely never see that happen. The biggest positive move for FL racing in general would be for all the tracks and promoters to come together and work as one to help us get car counts up. The cars are out there to do it. Honestly, it might even help if EVERYONE didn't run on Saturdays... Between Auburndale, Desoto, Orlando, New Smyrna, Bronson, 3PS, I think if tracks were willing to take a chance on weeknights, FL racing might be more successful. It would allow guys to chose 2-3 or more nights a week to race. Orlando is not a fair comparison right now, but I think in time they will grow but if you put Auburndale on a Thursday or even a Wednesday night, you could possibly double your car count I think. I know I keep going back to the "up here" mentality, but there are a few weekday tracks up here and most of their drivers pull double duty or more during the week racing with 1 car.

Just thinking out loud.

[kendo]

So... Let me ask this. Any of you guys own or work for a business the primarily operates outdoors? Look at this with some logic...

...

No,,,but if one does and cancels when there isn't a cloud in the sky,one may be doomed.

Given all the info posted here,fans/competitors have to watch for rain leading up to Fridays event,then,they have to stayed tuned for updates from the track whether or not the track is 'WEEPING" or not ???

Good luck

[Phil Jacques]

No,,,but if one does and cancels when there isn't a cloud in the sky,one may be doomed.

Given all the info posted here,fans/competitors have to watch for rain leading up to Fridays event,then,they have to stayed tuned for updates from the track whether or not the track is 'WEEPING" or not ???

Good luck

You act as if a race has NEVER been cancelled for Weepers before... California, Texas, Atlanta, Charlotte, Michigan... Depending on how much rain you get in areas, the ground can become overly saturated. Sorry, but it happens.

This is just a product of this generation. Gotta find someone to blame because it HAS to be somebody's fault.

[OldSchool+]

gotcha

Yes, the track made me close it...

[Phil Jacques]

Yes, the track made me close it...

Alright well at least we have someone to blame now lol!

[Frasson118]

Mother Nature is to blame. Through the erosion process it has been an escalating problem. It didn't do this every week/every summer 25 years ago.

[Frasson118]

Mother Nature is to blame. Through the erosion process it has been an escalating problem. It didn't do this every week/every summer 25 years ago.

[shorttrackcar1]

Oldschool you want to know what I honestly think you won't like it. I belive racing in the orlando area is done do to there just are not enough of the younger genaration interested in it with money. the guys who run the lower classes cant afford to move up thats the bottom line. most fans are not going to come out every week to watch the lower classes run We all know there is no money in racing you can only dump money into a racecar week after week with no return for so long then you have to stop. unless your rich with a endless cash flow. And We still have a few that can in the upper classes. I think osw is trying everything they can do. tires 570.00 a set 10.00 gal fuel 30.00 a person to get in the pits a 4 person family to get in a month is 480.00 if they race 4 times a month. thats some family liveing expense car payment, food, power bill, house payment. I dont think there is any fix to this. in time all good thing come to a end. I try not to say anything on here there are a few guys who aren't vary smart on here you can tell who I am talking about they are the ones who act like kids on here and want to call me dirty names like shittrack I am not going to lower myself to there level. these are the guys who are going to the track and then we wonder why the track has went to hell remember who started this post complaing about the track makeing a call not to race frasson118 but I guess its ok for him to complain.

[Frasson118]

Aaaaannndd.... Mr. IQ of 1 chimes in.

The death of racing as you see it, has been predicted at LEAST 3 times longer than you have been ALIVE.

It was DONE... In the 40's.... then the 50's... And then.......

Racers will still race..... whiners will still whine.... but racing will NEVER be dead even after your Grandchildren are out there watching it.

Your (I'm guessing here) 4-6 year involvement in this is ALL you've got.

Many of us here are 40 or better..... as bitter as you are, you'll never GET to be a 40 year fan.

As the saying goes, "With friends like you, who needs enemas".

[cake]

Oldschool you want to know what I honestly think you won't like it. I belive racing in the orlando area is done do to there just are not enough of the younger genaration interested in it with money. the guys who run the lower classes cant afford to move up thats the bottom line. most fans are not going to come out every week to watch the lower classes run We all know there is no money in racing you can only dump money into a racecar week after week with no return for so long then you have to stop. unless your rich with a endless cash flow. And We still have a few that can in the upper classes. I think osw is trying everything they can do. tires 570.00 a set 10.00 gal fuel 30.00 a person to get in the pits a 4 person family to get in a month is 480.00 if they race 4 times a month. thats some family liveing expense car payment, food, power bill, house payment. I dont think there is any fix to this. in time all good thing come to a end. I try not to say anything on here there are a few guys who aren't vary smart on here you can tell who I am talking about they are the ones who act like kids on here and want to call me dirty names like shittrack I am not going to lower myself to there level. these are the guys who are going to the track and then we wonder why the track has went to hell remember who started this post complaing about the track makeing a call not to race frasson118 but I guess its ok for him to complain.

You are right though. I'd love to have a sportsman or pro truck but I can't afford it.

[OldSchool+]

"I believe racing in the orlando area is done do to there just are not enough of the younger generation interested in it with money."--ST

A valid point, but it would seem it is beside the point.

It has always been expensive, and yet, Auburndale is economically depressed, as are other areas, yet they have larger fields. Speedworld has always been a stepchild, although I like the configuration of the track better than New Smyrna.

It may in fact be done, but it is free to type, and free for the promoter to read, and free to hope for something positive.

[Phil Jacques]

A few of us were just discussing this the other day... I have close to $20,000 into my brand new Street Stock... A STREET STOCK FOR CHRIST SAKES!!! $7000 for the engine alone and I went the "budget" route!!!

There are two MAJOR problems with local short track racing across the entire country today. Lack of interest from youth and cost.

Going along with my earlier post, it starts at gate prices... Promoters are charging $18+ for adults and $15+ for kids in most places I regular, but the stands are pretty much empty... LESS IS MORE and we need to find a way to drive this into tracks heads... For a basic family of 4, it ends up about $66 for one night, PLUS food, PLUS fuel to get to the track, you could easily end up $150 or more for one night of entertainment... In this economy, it just doesn't work for most families, thus the empty stands. I always say, Adults $10 Kids 12 and under FREE. Waterford Speedbowl tried that suggestion one weekend this year and the place was absolutely PACKED. The next week they went back to regular prices... empty again... Simple math says if the track gets 1000 people @ $18/head they make $18,000... If they fill the 3500 seat capacity @ $10/head they make $35000!!! Even if you get 1500 kids mixed into that 3500 people they still come out ahead at $20,000 at the front gate and there is a damn good chance people are going to be willing to spend more money at the concessions when they pay $10 to get in, than they would $18. It's simple economics but these greedy pricks that run most of these tracks don't stop and think about their future, they just want the now.

Now if you get 1500 kids into the stands in one evening (probably unlikely but let's use it as a figure), maybe 20% of them say Hey mom Hey dad, I WANNA RACE!!! That's 300 new prospective future drivers. Now, not every family can afford to go out and buy go karts or quarter midgets or whatnot... But even if 20% of those kids families can afford it, that's still 60 kids that we could potentially get into racing! That is HUGE HUGE HUGE for the future of our sport! Obviously all these figures and numbers are theoretical but you get my drift here. We have to get kids in the stands for kids to want to be involved.

Another part of this is bringing NEW fans in. Lower prices may be more likely to attract first time fans. Some of those adult fans may even gain interest and want to drive themselves, you never know and the audience they could turn onto the sport as well in their circle of family and friends is like a ripple effect. It just keeps going and going, but the tracks need to take steps and really try to do this. I have not seen any evidence of the thought of the future by any track manager or owner/promoter I have ever met.




The second biggest hindrance of our sport right now... COST

Racing is expensive, we all understand that when we get into it. But it doesn't necessarily have to be as expensive as it is... Why do we HAVE to run on racing fuel? Most of our engines are well under 12:1 compression right? 93 pump gas is PLENTY! Tires have also gotten ridiculous too. Most tracks are using tires on cars that weren't meant for that kind of car. In my opinion, use a harder compound. Enforce stricter tire rules to save teams money. Make the tires last and make the teams have to make the tires last. Tires are one of the biggest things that price the little guy out of racing. Many people will say "well just race in a less expensive division" but quite honestly, that's an eliteist attitude. You think you are better than me cause you can afford more? NOPE! 6 brand new tires for the opener and 2 tires per week allowed after that with a maximum of 12 tires in your operational inventory at any time. We use Hoosier 800s and American Racer 704/705s up here depending on the track. All the tires have a little bar code on the tire and the track maintains an inventory and checks every car prior to the feature event to make sure the tires they are using are in their inventory. Basically the way it works is once you have 12 tires in your inventory, if you want to add 2 new tires, you have to un-register 2 old tires. Those 2 old tires can not be used again unless you re-enter them into your inventory, but you would have to remove 2 others to add the old tires back. Make sense? Much more cost efficient way of operating the tire deal.

Another part really hurting the cost are bandaided rules. Over time, rules have gotten over complicated and become over-thought because someone may push an issue here or there in a gray area and they put a "bandaid" rule in place to block that. Rules should not be more than 1 or 2 pages at most. My rule book for my Street Stock is 16 pages long... ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!! There are ways to write rules so that they are transparent and simple yet fair and affordable for everyone. At many tracks across the country it's time for someone intelligent to sit down and re-write a lot of rule books. Over complicated rules add additional costs and make it difficult for people on a budget to come out and have fun, because isn't that what our sport is about? FUN!?

This only scratches the surface for me... There is so much more I could go into but simply do not have the patience to sit here and write a book lol! Nor do I think you all want to read it...

I have only been in oval racing for 2 1/2 years... I am 29 and maybe I do not have the diluted perception of reality of those that may have been in this sport for 20+ years.

Overall cost is causing our biggest problems and it does not have to be that way....

[OldSchool+]

Thx, Phil.

At Auburndale years ago they had a "limited" class that was kind of in between hobby stocks and late models.

4 barrel carbs and headers were allowed, but the tire was narrow. So, they were sideways and it was good racing with a large field.

Maybe hobby stocks are like that now, maybe sportsman, maybe modifieds, but all (I think) have gotten pricier in later years (no?).

How to "fix" it...? Maybe camshaft, cylinder head and tire limits? And I mean serious limits. Let 'em keep the 4bbl & headers so they sound good and are responsive (instead of "flat").

I would suggest it is not the cost of the car, per se, they can be bought. It is the motor and tires to run the thing.

I agree with you, but your take on the solution?

[Phil Jacques]

I only really know two cars well. ACT Late Models which you do not have down there and Street Stocks/Sportsmans which are essentially the same thing.

I personally think the Sportsman division has the right idea. Simple 2 page rule book, an open motor and a crate motor option depending on your budget (and both are competitive) and somewhat open body rules which really aids everyone's budget imo.

Honestly, limiting tires and finding ways to keep engine costs down would be a huge help. I see no reason any division except maybe Super Late Models, Modifieds, Sprints and possibly PLM, should run anything more than 93 octane fuel. $10.75 just gets ridiculous.

For the lower divisions, I would spec out what parts they can use in their engines and require they stay UNALTERED. That is a simple word that cuts a lot of BS. Another thing needed is strict and consistent tech. If you break a rule, you get tossed. May not be popular, but if people feel they will be treated fairly on a consistent basis, you may be more likely to show up to that particular track where fair tech is taking place.

As Scott said in his other post a short bit ago, we will likely never get back to the glory days of 40 cars per division showing up and sending people home. But if we can make it more affordable and draw in some more cars and get the fields to 15-20 cars or more per division on a weekly basis, that would be considered a success in my books.