Great News About Desota

[kendo]

I see very few cars in each class, they all look about the same speed, and they're all 40 year old Monte Carlos. No wonder there aren't any people in the stands. "

And the Monte driver sells the car and purchases or builds a modified,,,a few years later sells it to get a late model....A pit member or relative decides to take the same route.

It all starts from the bottom up...Its amazing that this is rocket science to some.

The problem is that the entry level classes have been treated like crap for soooo long that the bottom dropped out long ago.

Head out to the dirt track and you will find that they have figured this out...You will even run into a lot of former asphalt track racers

[scottgarrity07]

Ok. So K. Williams and co. did a lot to spruce up Desoto. Now J. Cope and Critter are in charge and we are seeing procedural improvements like no time trialing, handicapping, stricter rules enforcement, rule changes to draw more cars (eliminating the super clutch from Sportsman, giving old 9" Sportsman a wt. advantage over q.c. cars, changing Street Stock rules to entice old Super Stocks to join them and sounds like leaving the entry level Bombers alone.) All great moves. Still, there's a big gap between the crowds and fields that the dirt tracks are drawing over asphalt. Maybe our Professional fans (OSF, Jerry or Denman) who regularly frequent both dirt and asphalt can tell us. What are they doing at the dirt tracks right that they are not doing at the asphalt tracks?????

[Matt Albee]

You and I both race the same type of car. Only difference is that mine uses tires.

[Matt Albee]

And the Monte driver sells the car and purchases or builds a modified,,,a few years later sells it to get a late model....A pit member or relative decides to take the same route.

It all starts from the bottom up...Its amazing that this is rocket science to some.

The problem is that the entry level classes have been treated like crap for soooo long that the bottom dropped out long ago.

Head out to the dirt track and you will find that they have figured this out...You will even run into a lot of former asphalt track racers

Thanks, that explains where this huge overflow of modifieds has come from, it's those entry level MC drivers that have taken the plunge and moved up. I guess the system really does work.

[Frasson118]

Out of the dozens of reasons that dirt is more successful, I've narrowed it down to (my opinion) these top 3: Tires, practice days/time, and crash damage.

For the tires, on dirt it's rarely any kind of advantage to have 4 new skins on the car. It's MUCH more important to have the correct sizes, to create the optimum stagger, than it is to have all of them being fresh. The big guys still spend a bunch on tires, but they don't throw away all 4 at the end of each night.

Practice: Dirt tracks generally have 1 or 2 sessions, of only 5-6 laps each and these sessions don't burn up ANY tires. Asphalt, especially for ANY kind of 'special' show, they have a complete practice night beforehand, plus a handful of practice sessions that last 1/2 hour each. You can kiss a set of 4 tires goodbye, plus 1/2 tank of racing fuel, put 50 or 100 laps worth of wear & tear on the equipment...... not to mention hotels, meals, drinks, etc. for the 36 hours or so you have invested in your race itself. Every practice night is purely throwing money out the window by NOT racing. And forget about anyone just showing up to run on race day when everyone else is a day and a half ahead of you before you unload. If you can't afford BOTH days, no sense in showing up at 5:00 on race day.
Dirt: 12 laps practice, no tires used, maybe 2-3 gallons of fuel, and an 8 hour time investment.
Asphalt: 100 laps practice, full set of tires (maybe 2), probably 12-15 gallons of fuel, 36 hours time invested plus all the 'overnight' expenses that come with it.

Crash Damage: Dirt cars survive contact a HELL of a lot better. I'm not talking about the really hard impacts that any racecar can go through.... I mean the 3-4 car pile-ups. On dirt, most of the time you'll see all 4 drive away and re-join the tail of the field. On asphalt, all 4 cars go off on the hook, and probably won't be seen again for a month. Dirt crashes seem to dissipate the energies a lot more than asphalt where the contact is much more solid & damaging. And if the handling gets knocked out of whack because of a slightly tweaked part, dirt guys just drive it differently and continue. An asphalt with anything bent in the suspension is gonna be a nightmare to hang on to..... and you have ZERO chance to do well.

On dirt.... tire budgets are a lot less (I talked to a driver that switched a few years ago who told me their Dirt tire budget was less for the entire season than it was for the Snowball Derby alone)...... they spend less money to RACE more, and their cars aren't junkyard bound after a mild to medium crash.

Much more bang for the buck on dirt, and therefore a lot more cars, which creates a much better fan experience.

Plus the fact that on dirt, the guy starting 24th still has a shot to win. We saw it a few weeks ago at East Bay.... when's the last time you saw THAT on asphalt...?

[kendo]

Out of the dozens of reasons that dirt is more successful, I've narrowed it down to (my opinion) these top 3: Tires, practice days/time, and crash damage.

...?

I agree 100%...2 out of the 3 were this 1st things that entered my mind.

Volusia had a very good year.I doubt many know this but the folks that ran the track last year never operated a race track before.You don't need to make big changes or reinvent the wheel as so many here on this forum suggest...Make a schedule in a timely manner and stick with it.Make your rule book and stick with it.Post your payouts before the season and stick with it.Track officials and organizers need to leave your egos home,leave your my way or the highway additude home,and treat ALL the racers the same and in a fair manner whether they are an entry level driver or a SLM driver...If you don't do any of that,nothing else really matters :ernaehrung004

[kendo]

Thanks, that explains where this huge overflow of modifieds has come from, it's those entry level MC drivers that have taken the plunge and moved up. I guess the system really does work.

At Showtime? Maybe,only been there once,,,had 26 modifieds for a regular show...I guess your right.

[kendo]

You and I both race the same type of car. Only difference is that mine uses tires.

:

That's me in 4th...The cool thing about asphalt racing is that I can run around in last place all night,and come Monday tell all my friends and co-workers that I had a top 5

[scottgarrity07]

Ok. Some things crossover, some don't. Nothing you can do about the crash damage thing. But practice days could be reduced to non racing weekends, that's a start. I think you hit the nail on the head with everything that you said Kendo. The racers environment has a lot to do with our desire to show up. The big thing here is tires. I think you'll never be able to get things like dirt but there's ways you can help. Racers have kinda been our own worst enemy here. We clamor for the softest, widest (fastest) tires, then don't show up when we realize we can't afford the 4 a night we need to be competitive. Funny thing is the track owners think if they are all not on the same tires as every other track then no one will race, when in fact just about every division on race tires needs four a night to be competitive anyway. The ONLY asphalt tire I have found to last a bunch of nights is the Hoosier Commanche, it's actually better after a night or two. It comes in 7, 8 and 10 inch widths too. It's the "radical" idea asphalt raing needs IMO, but unfortunately we'll probably never have an owner with the guts to implement it. What else from a fan's experience is superior at the successful dirt venues?

[kendo]

The racers environment has a lot to do with our desire to show up. The big thing here is tires.

Which leads to the subject of payouts...Can anyone tell me why the payouts are consistently lower across the board in every division at asphalt tracks compared to dirt tracks? Seems to me that a higher tire bill with lower payouts is a recipe for low car counts.

[Matt Albee]

At Showtime? Maybe,only been there once,,,had 26 modifieds for a regular show...I guess your right.

So you're saying there's 26 entry level Monte Carlos for sale in the St. Pete area because the entire entry level contingent decided to build modifieds. It sounds like the dirt tracks in Florida could learn a lot from Showtime.

[Matt Albee]

Ok. So K. Williams and co. did a lot to spruce up Desoto. Now J. Cope and Critter are in charge and we are seeing procedural improvements like no time trialing, handicapping, stricter rules enforcement, rule changes to draw more cars (eliminating the super clutch from Sportsman, giving old 9" Sportsman a wt. advantage over q.c. cars, changing Street Stock rules to entice old Super Stocks to join them and sounds like leaving the entry level Bombers alone.) All great moves. Still, there's a big gap between the crowds and fields that the dirt tracks are drawing over asphalt. Maybe our Professional fans (OSF, Jerry or Denman) who regularly frequent both dirt and asphalt can tell us. What are they doing at the dirt tracks right that they are not doing at the asphalt tracks?????

Of course we're only talking about some dirt tracks. Putnam can't seem to keep the doors open. Hendry County isn't real healthy either I hear. Southern Raceway is the nicest dirt track in the state and I've heard they're
only just getting by.

[kendo]

So you're saying there's 26 entry level Monte Carlos for sale in the St. Pete area because the entire entry level contingent decided to build modifieds. It sounds like the dirt tracks in Florida could learn a lot from Showtime.

Most of those drivers most likely moved up from entry level divisions,,,they didn't simply fall out of the grandstands...You have a hard time following along,dont you ?

[Old Sunshine Fan]

I agree with Jerry regarding his recent statements (Dirt vs Asphalt). In addition, I would first say... lead changes.... I have become a dirt fan because the lead can change lap after lap...don't see that on asphalt as much (because after "Qualifying" the fast cars are up front and you have follow the leader)..
Dirt runs heats...every class....every race night...much more racing bang for the buck (that's what fans want to see)...

I've said all this before...over and over... is there anyone out there listening?

Here's a free HINT... Bubba-Land went to dirt and packs them in every race night... hint..hint...hint.........................

OSF

[Frasson118]

Which is also the answer to "why asphalt tracks consitantly pay less"..... because less fans are paying THEM. You can't pay the same purse with 400 people in the stands that you can if you have 2000.