new ideas not crap.

[Jimmy McKinley]

After the races, drivers will be awarded free beer and encouraged to solve their disputes with fisticuffs within full view of the crowd as this will promote outrageous ticket sales for the next week like nothing you've ever seen. Beer pushes and ride-a-longs for the kids.

Saw a sign posted in the pits at a race track up in Michigan:

"Fight in my pits: $500 fine.

Fight on the frontstretch: We'll pay *you* $100."

[Edm]

Not to pick on NSS,but would love to see them move the pits outside the track and landscape the infield and improve on the poor lighting...Its all about atmosphere.

Good point, plus the trailers partially block parts of the track from the grandstands.

[Matt Albee]

Possibly the best thread in a while...

Some really great concepts in your original post Don. I think it all starts at the back gate. No race cars in the pits = no fans in the stands, period.

So - the million dollar question. How to get race cars to come out...

Cost is a big factor. Purses matter, but to everyone but the "traveling series" racers, I don't think they are a huge factor. With a 15k motor, WTF is the difference between $275 for 3rd place and $350 for 3rd place? It means jack-crap. Purses in the grand scheme of things are not the thing keeping racers from the tracks - again, JMHO.

Let's examine the mod division @ NSS. This is not intended to pick on NSS, just an example to discuss. There are two modified divisions. How many cars does each division attract on a given night? 5-8? 8 is being very optimistic. Why have two divisions? Why not have one with some common sense rules? The old days it used to be build a bad ass steel head motor. Then you could run alum heads w/ 50 lbs in front of the flywheel. Then that rule kinda went to the wayside. Then people would show up with SB2's for big races. Then you could run a big motor w/ 7 lbs per CI, or you could have a big motor with a two barrel and be 2500 lbs. Then you could do "X" and weigh 56% left, but if you had "Y" then you could be 56.5% or whatever. Look at the damn e-mods now - needs to be a crate motor, or you can run a superstock motor...

Then you are buying a set of 4 tires every night...

Eff'ing nonsense.

One modified division. One set of damn motor rules. Pick a hard tire that lasts a few nights (maybe the grooved tires do?).

Here's your motor rules:
Production block, wet sump
360 CI max
Crank weight rule
23 deg. heads only, alum ok
Make the carb's pass a gauge rule.

Or even go more strict, who cares. Just make a set of rules and stick with them for more than a season. We are hesitant to commit to either division of mods because of the lack of cars and the fact the damn rules change so much.

After having said all of that, that brings me to the back gate fee. Just like the purses, it needs to be reasonable, but it isn't keeping racers away. You could let me in for $10 bucks and I wouldn't come out until I felt there was a division solid enough to put the car back together and show up for.

In the mean time we will keep playing with our ChumpCar - we will keep paying higher entry fees and racing for essentially no purse but race with LOTS of cars and get lots of track time on high-end tracks and have stupid amounts of fun while doing it.

That last paragraph was the hint for short track promoters to do their homework - ChumpCar is growing by leaps and bounds while local roundy round racing has be going downhill for years (but hopefully not out).

-David Castello

And this brings up another point. I wouldn't be surprised if Chump Car is growing fast. But the only part that's growing is the car count. The fan base is growing at a snails pace, if at all. Same for track owner interest. It's like the E-Mods. Interesting idea for the racers, but the fans aren't interested.
Short track promoters do need to do their homework. They need to put cars on the track that will attract fans, not just competitors.

[pintodave]

And this brings up another point. I wouldn't be surprised if Chump Car is growing fast. But the only part that's growing is the car count. The fan base is growing at a snails pace, if at all. Same for track owner interest. It's like the E-Mods. Interesting idea for the racers, but the fans aren't interested.
Short track promoters do need to do their homework. They need to put cars on the track that will attract fans, not just competitors.

Fair point - and even though it's all "racing", Chumpcar is comparing apples to oranges when compared to a Saturday night short track.

In Chumpcar's defense of spectator counts, they to race at a lot of venues that aren't "spectator orientated" although there is some great racing action.

But no matter what series there is still the issue of "getting cars to show up" - which is where the short tracks are falling way short.

For those interested - The 14 Hour Daytona race is Memorial Day Sunday, come check it out, it's 10 bucks to get in the infield & garage area. The West Horseshoe will most likely be party-central - it was in 2012. I suspect there will be more spectators this year due to the word-of-mouth thing. Of course it looks like no one is there because it is such a large space to fill, but given there is zero advertisement of the event and Daytona is not a "weekly venue" sort of track, getting anyone there excited to watch is cool.

[Lurkin]

Simple, tracks need to pay more money and attract more fans and competitors.

:-)

PS You're Welcome.

[andre]

Simple, tracks need to pay more money and attract more fans and competitors.


OK. Then why are Enduros, Crash-Trash, Destroy-o-rama and the likes pack with fans and participants and the purses are next to inexistants??

[Matt Albee]

Simple, tracks need to pay more money and attract more fans and competitors.


OK. Then why are Enduros, Crash-Trash, Destroy-o-rama and the likes pack with fans and participants and the purses are next to inexistants??

Those types of shows certainly do pack in the fans. But for the most part those aren't racing fans. Advertise that you're going to destroy a car using a jet engine, advertise that you're going to crash motor homes and boats on trailers, advertise that you're going to have the drivers blindfolded during the race...and believe me the spectators will be there. But the majority of them won't come back for the weekly stock car show because they aren't fans of stock car racing, they're fans of crazy stunts and loud explosions.
And the participants aren't usually racers.

[andre]

There is your real answer. Race fans will watch stock car racing and Every Day Joe will go to the extravaganza night. How about combining a touch the 2?????????

If you read carefully what i wrote previously about wrapping your presentation differently, that is what I meant. Putting in stuff that EVERYBODY likes, so this way you will attract both groups of spectators.

And when the spectators are there, the racers show up. Give any racer the choice of racing in front of 25,000 pump up race fans for free or for 3000$ to win at Desolation Speedway, in Lalaland County, then check the answer.

[fred23]

I have thrown this idea out before for crasharama nights.......when you have 8-10k people in the stands you need to put on a race before hand that shows what happens at the track the other 40 weeks of the year.......you could do it many ways but my two ideas were this......either or.........PAY 25 SLM drivers to show up and run a 25 lap or maybe an all star type segment race ..... pay them a couple hundred bucks to tow in, let them in free, sell them tires for 1/2 price and maybe make it a winner take all $3000 to win........let the crasharama people see and hear 25 SLM come to the green flag........you could even hand out tix with the drivers numbers and the FANS with matching tix to winner get a free coke or beer........or have a bomber or super stock race same concept ......the reason I say that is there are a lot of "car people" in the stands at crasharama......they might get the itch......use Don's idea and invite people to sign up for 5 spots in the race and pick them out of a basket in front of ALL THE FANS and let them pick there car and race in the race.......get a local radio or tv guy or gal to race in it, give them a car and gear and even a couple of driving lessons before hand......you would get a month or two of promotion for your event and track......and anyone who has ever driven anything on a racetrack knows, once they get in a car on a track, it is all you can talk about until you get it one again.......

[Don Nerone]

We ran stock cars for 3 years at orlando Crash a Rama.
The fans Booed ans threw food and beer on the track. Opps no more stock cars.. But the endro did get a lot of new people in racing.
At one time we tried to have boat and camper races with the stock car races trying to get new fans to watch racing.. The drivers would boycot those events.
Like Fishing and Hunting there the same but different.

Don62

[palmbayer]

OH GOD !!!! DON"T SCREW UP CRASH A RAMA !!!
Leave it alone and let it do what it's doing....paying MOST of the track's bills so the 18 of us race fans that are left can enjoy our outdated technology. See ya at the races !!!

[zerofor]

Hey Palm i still have one of those

Right here on the shelf next to my rotary phone and behind my hula hoop.Interested in aquiring it?lol

[Dana Barlow]

Show = fans = track works;We really need a low$ but fast classs [show],"junkyard motors only,clamer if needed",but the newer computer controled motors=yes most rednecks don't know crap about computers[time to learn], face it the low$ high out put motors are now cheep and EZ to get,plus are very lite lbs. wise,higher HP and rpm,twin camers ect. then many race motors.
Fact is with only a HP chip and header most will out run SLM at about $1 to $100,but we don't use the new motors cuz we never have update rule to fazz these thing into the now,we are running in the pasted motor wise in nearly all classs but for a few places with some front drive minis.
Something new yup,real new,I love to see open wheel mods with those type motors my self,on 10in. tire that are same as other class that run at a given track=tire rim interchange ect.

[Don Nerone]

OH GOD !!!! DON"T SCREW UP CRASH A RAMA !!!
Leave it alone and let it do what it's doing....paying MOST of the track's bills so the 18 of us race fans that are left can enjoy our outdated technology. See ya at the races !!!

And u though that was old school.
Set them with a feeler guage at 16 when i was a kid youngster..LOL

Don62

[Don Nerone]

Show = fans = track works;We really need a low$ but fast classs [show],"junkyard motors only,clamer if needed",but the newer computer controled motors=yes most rednecks don't know crap about computers[time to learn], face it the low$ high out put motors are now cheep and EZ to get,plus are very lite lbs. wise,higher HP and rpm,twin camers ect. then many race motors.
Fact is with only a HP chip and header most will out run SLM at about $1 to $100,but we don't use the new motors cuz we never have update rule to fazz these thing into the now,we are running in the pasted motor wise in nearly all classs but for a few places with some front drive minis.
Something new yup,real new,I love to see open wheel mods with those type motors my self,on 10in. tire that are same as other class that run at a given track=tire rim interchange ect.

Tell us about this cheap engine that just needs a chip and headers that will make hp with a SLM engine??? SLM spec engine makes 600 hp at 3 times the cost 9to1 makes 630hp
Wich one of those stock with chip engines do that??

Im posting crap sorry
Don62