In times like these!

[DeucesWild]

Rick

I have seen it with two tracks. I was with a couple of investors a few years back looking at the purchase of these race tracks and facilities. Both since have been purchased by different individuals. I would rather not say the names of the tracks or the names of the new owners out of respect to them. I believe they have been cleaning up the mess they have inherited. The paperwork that I seen at both places was staggering. They were listing it as paying tow money to these people to try and hide the fact that they were simply letting them in for free. The majority of them were fans/spectators but some of them were competitors. These competitors were not big name large fan draw type of competitors. They were just the average Joe. Some of these competitors lived in the same town or real close to the track. In fact when you get right down to it they are getting in for free. Then the tracks would cut purse do to low revenue paid thru the gate. That was my point in that statement you were questioning.

[DeucesWild]

My final statement on this thread

Look guys, I am not saying there is a clear cut answer for the fix of this problem. Heck if I had one I would run for higher office and fix the country's problem. LOL! All I am saying is in my opinion and the things I know to be facts is that there is no one person or group of people that is the blame. We all are at fault. Until we all realize this and work together it won't get better in this economy. People do not have the throw away cash they use to have. When they had it they didn't care. Know they are counting every dollar to still go and do get their racing fix. There are more low budget teams than the big dollar teams out there. Even the big dollar teams are selective in where they go and race anymore. They don't travel like they use to. Fuel prices are up, purses are down so they pick and choose. They use to just go. I don't have to tell you guys this you are racers you know. My opinion is that if we all don't work together on this we will start seeing our local home tracks go by the wayside. There are a lot of them across the country in trouble right now. Thanks for the conversation and God Bless!

[Rick Williamson]

Dont know about that mamy but I have heard of several every week a couple yrs ago. It involved a couple differant teams. Seems they did work or somethin in return. Funny thing, one team is dissolved now, the other seldom shows up.

Well that's not letting them in free then. I personally don't know of this happening. But I could see if a team helped put in a stand section of boards. Or something like that. But again I have never heard of people helping around the track getting in free. And for sure by those numbers getting in free.

[Rick Williamson]

I have seen it with two tracks. I was with a couple of investors a few years back looking at the purchase of these race tracks and facilities. Both since have been purchased by different individuals. I would rather not say the names of the tracks or the names of the new owners out of respect to them. I believe they have been cleaning up the mess they have inherited. The paperwork that I seen at both places was staggering. They were listing it as paying tow money to these people to try and hide the fact that they were simply letting them in for free. The majority of them were fans/spectators but some of them were competitors. These competitors were not big name large fan draw type of competitors. They were just the average Joe. Some of these competitors lived in the same town or real close to the track. In fact when you get right down to it they are getting in for free. Then the tracks would cut purse do to low revenue paid thru the gate. That was my point in that statement you were questioning.

I guess I'm just trying to understand why their were let in for free. And in those numbers. The owners whom ever they were or are would be cutting their own heads off by doing this. I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that I've never heard of it. Thanks for helping me understand this

[flvideo]

I guess I have seen promotors give out tickets in those numbers but they are trying to put new butts in the seats. I am like Rick I have never known of admission in those numbers given to regulars at any track. I don't think thats the problem anyway. If we would treat our drivers like they are the main thing, which by the way they are, The car counts would improve and along with that the fans would too. Lets face it if theirs no cars on the track theres no butts in the stands. Even die heart fans won't come out and watch 3 and 4 car features for long. Although in this economy we are going to have fewer that can afford to field a competitive car, so when theres 3 or 4 in a class reduce the laps. I a sight rather watch a 10 lap race wher cars are reletively close than a 25 lap race where they are all spread ot. Its like watching a long pratice session. Another thing that drives cars away is inconsistancy with the rules. I have never understood why it makes any difference to a track what the rules are except for safty. Let the class set their rules and let them police them. I have seen so many times where it is almost like a track has a vendeta to catch a particular driver cheating and more times than not he is proven legal. I am sorry to ramble but let an old man have his say. just my 2 cents... Bob...

[Rick Williamson]

Look guys, I am not saying there is a clear cut answer for the fix of this problem. Heck if I had one I would run for higher office and fix the country's problem. LOL! All I am saying is in my opinion and the things I know to be facts is that there is no one person or group of people that is the blame. We all are at fault. Until we all realize this and work together it won't get better in this economy. People do not have the throw away cash they use to have. When they had it they didn't care. Know they are counting every dollar to still go and do get their racing fix. There are more low budget teams than the big dollar teams out there. Even the big dollar teams are selective in where they go and race anymore. They don't travel like they use to. Fuel prices are up, purses are down so they pick and choose. They use to just go. I don't have to tell you guys this you are racers you know. My opinion is that if we all don't work together on this we will start seeing our local home tracks go by the wayside. There are a lot of them across the country in trouble right now. Thanks for the conversation and God Bless!

Nor do I have all the answers. But I do know it's not all of us at fault. If I as a fan don't like seating in the stands that are broken. That's not my fault. If as a fan seating in the stand I dislike paying to see races that have 4 to 6 cars doing 20 to 25 laps. That small number of cars racing isn't my fault. If as a fan with a family of 4 I can't afford $80.00 ($20.00 per person) plus $5.00 hamburgers and then fries and a drink for each. That's my fault? I guess I want to know how we as fans (work) with the owner. He or she will not listen to me about the high cost of getting in and feeding the family if I talk to them face to face. The only way to express myself is by not going. I think the fans as I see it aren't at fault in this.

[flvideo]

You are right about that Rick. How can we blame fans? If there are no fans theres no tracks the way I see it. In dang near 60 years in this sport if I have learned anything its that when you take care of the drivers and keep them happy the fans will come. But on the other hand when there are broken boards in the stands or the price of admission is too high or the price of food is out of the park, fans are not going to come in droves. When the fans are treated like they are royalty and the drivers are treated with respect then I think we can turn this around. I know in my day when I raced I'd spend the grocery money to race because I loved it. At times today when people are treated like crap and it ain't fun any more then they'll find something that is fun. I don't suppose we'll have all the answers but its a start. If you keep on doin the same ole thing you'll get the same ole result...

[DeucesWild]

Rick one last comment then I am done

Yes you are right in saying that a fan should not be put in that environment. That is the tracks fault 100%. But there are several tracks out there with not having that problem and no fan support. I understand the not wanting to see 4 to 6 car features. It goes back to the triangle all three sides have to do their part or it will not work. The fans are the lesser of the three as far as placing blame. It all starts with the tracks. Then the drivers and finally the fans. If the tracks do their part then the drivers need to show and then the fans should show. But with one side defaulting it crumbles fast and hard to make it work. It is a tough situation when nobody takes fault for anything. It is always the other guys fault. That never solves anything. There are justifiable issues on all three sides. Flvideo brought up another side of the problem that the drivers have and that being rules. I commend Rick Bristol in what he is trying to accomplish. I hope the drivers support him because this is a big step in the right direction. I also see the sportsman and street stock class is following his lead. That is a good thing and hopefully the tracks follow suit and all work together and clean up their act. Then the fans support these racers and tracks.

[Rob00]

Which tracks? I have NEVER seen nor heard of such a things. Has anyone else know of this happening?

I have seen media people get in at no charge, I think they should still have to pay something, my 7 year old has to pay 25.00 to sit in the trailer and play and hang out in our pit to watch his brother race.

Rob

[Bigbuck]

Well that's not letting them in free then. I personally don't know of this happening. But I could see if a team helped put in a stand section of boards. Or something like that. But again I have never heard of people helping around the track getting in free. And for sure by those numbers getting in free.

Well Rick, the only time you reply to anything I say is to dissagree and basically call me a liar. I didn't say dozens were let in. I seriously doubt its announced on the PA system. How many tracks do you go to on a reg. basis? I don't any more but I did, to one in particular, EVERY week for 4-5 yrs up until last yr. Someone else said dozens were let in, I didn't. All I ask of you is to try to think maybe, just maybe I'm not trying to start trouble or lying, at least no EVERY time I post, deal?? I've made many friendly posts to you, like I said, you never answer unless its to start something with me.

[Bigbuck]

Yes you are right in saying that a fan should not be put in that environment. That is the tracks fault 100%. But there are several tracks out there with not having that problem and no fan support. I understand the not wanting to see 4 to 6 car features. It goes back to the triangle all three sides have to do their part or it will not work. The fans are the lesser of the three as far as placing blame. It all starts with the tracks. Then the drivers and finally the fans. If the tracks do their part then the drivers need to show and then the fans should show. But with one side defaulting it crumbles fast and hard to make it work. It is a tough situation when nobody takes fault for anything. It is always the other guys fault. That never solves anything. There are justifiable issues on all three sides. Flvideo brought up another side of the problem that the drivers have and that being rules. I commend Rick Bristol in what he is trying to accomplish. I hope the drivers support him because this is a big step in the right direction. I also see the sportsman and street stock class is following his lead. That is a good thing and hopefully the tracks follow suit and all work together and clean up their act. Then the fans support these racers and tracks.

I agree completely. When Bobby had the truck series the tech was there, right there. The competitors knew they werent going to get away with much. Of coarse that was all during a time when the economy was better. EVERYONE, track owners, car owners and fans most all had more $. But this triangle thing is real!! I honestly think we ALL maybe can do a little more to make this work.

[Rick Williamson]

I have seen media people get in at no charge, I think they should still have to pay something, my 7 year old has to pay 25.00 to sit in the trailer and play and hang out in our pit to watch his brother race.

Rob

I fact I don't know how this works, weather at a race track or say a football game. But if they do get in free I can understand that. John Barker with The Ledger (when he was alive) always setup what was going to be happening this weekend. There were stories about drivers that were featured. And there would be results of races. That's free advertisment for the tracks. Now do they get in free I personal can't say. I will take your word for it. But so what. They would have been doing this for years and years. If not from the beginning of time. There would be only a few of them at each track. Not 50 to 150 getting in some track free that was being talked about. I mean what's next for you the employes have to pay? I will agree with you about having a kids price for the pits (if their not drivers). Again this is just another way for the tracks to soke the drivers and their crews.

[Rick Williamson]

Don

Well Rick, the only time you reply to anything I say is to dissagree and basically call me a liar. I didn't say dozens were let in. I seriously doubt its announced on the PA system. How many tracks do you go to on a reg. basis? I don't any more but I did, to one in particular, EVERY week for 4-5 yrs up until last yr. Someone else said dozens were let in, I didn't. All I ask of you is to try to think maybe, just maybe I'm not trying to start trouble or lying, at least no EVERY time I post, deal?? I've made many friendly posts to you, like I said, you never answer unless its to start something with me.

I was Not calling you a liar. Please reread my post to you. In fact I was agreeing with you that if someone or and a group did do work for free at the track. Say painting the wall around the track I can see the owner letting them in for free. I'm not saying it happens just that I would have no problem with that. And I didn't say you talked about lots of people getting in for free. Just that it was talked about by another poster. If you miss understood my post I'm sorry Don.

[Frasson118]

Rob00.... a couple of things: Media people from legitimate outlets get in free to basically every type of sporting event. They bring attention to a track that reaches hundreds, if not thousands of potential customers. That is well worth a free pass to the track. I know that when I did some writing, if I accepted a free pass, I owed that track a story. If I paid to get in, I'm there strictly as a fan and leaving the notebook in the car. I'm not paying AND working for free.

Secondly, you mention paying $25 for your 7 year old. That is YOUR choice. If he went in the front gate, he would have been free. Nobody forced that choice on you. Up north, nobody under 16 even has the option of going in the pits. This put more families in the stands, more friendships with other families, more concession sales, and a lower overall price for a family to attend. You CHOSE to do it that way.

I don't agree with your argument that media should pay, yet your 7 year old shouldn't.

[Rob00]

Rob00.... a couple of things: Media people from legitimate outlets get in free to basically every type of sporting event. They bring attention to a track that reaches hundreds, if not thousands of potential customers. That is well worth a free pass to the track. I know that when I did some writing, if I accepted a free pass, I owed that track a story. If I paid to get in, I'm there strictly as a fan and leaving the notebook in the car. I'm not paying AND working for free.

Secondly, you mention paying $25 for your 7 year old. That is YOUR choice. If he went in the front gate, he would have been free. Nobody forced that choice on you. Up north, nobody under 16 even has the option of going in the pits. This put more families in the stands, more friendships with other families, more concession sales, and a lower overall price for a family to attend. You CHOSE to do it that way.

I don't agree with your argument that media should pay, yet your 7 year old shouldn't.

First I was just answering a question about people getting in free. if they are with a major media source then I don't have a problem with that but when was the last time local racing was covered in a major news paper, heck it's hard to find NASCAR in one compared to other sports. As to my son it is my choice but with that said he not will set in the stands for that long, so the track loses because my wife has to stay home also. Just making a commet seems like everyone on here get defensive. Just my take...probably why I don't post much.