asked why?

[dd38]

Who am I making excuses about???? I know numbers. I have spent many, many years on a dyno and what just suttle changes will do to torque and H.P. My Super engine was built out of state (Tenn). It was in the car when I bought it. Had planned on trying to get more out of it, but the guy that does my engine work passed away 31/2 years ago. BTW I really don't have a builder as I assemble them myself. So Tim you don't know me as anyone that does knows who did my work forever. Like Rusty said, it"s also about torque. That's another aspect. Take a 350 engine with a 3.48 stroke and compare it to the Florida Spec that is a stroker.

[Rick Williamson]

All these numbers, and I dont have a dog in this fight and don't want one. So is the guy illigal or not? i still say on a track like Orlando it takes a LOT of hp to overcome a superior handeling car. The only real fair way is to run the same cars aginst the same cars. Just me, the only thing I. Like about FUPS is it makes a HALF decent field, not great but decent. But what choice is there, 5-6 in each class is no good either.

No dog in the fight? Then do as I do stay out of it!

[Bigbuck]

No dog in the fight? Then do as I do stay out of it!

You call this staying out of it??? Its a discussion board......I believe.Have a nice day!!

[jacko241]

I am curious, what do you guys think the approximate horsepower
of a 9:1 23 degree with the 4412 2bbl.?

[Tim]

dd38, My point was when 28k 9:1's were winning, you went and got one to run up front. When 35k steel heads were winning, you went and got one to run up front. Then things got out of control and the motors that were winning could not have price tags put on them. Only a few were willing to go that far financially to win and they were the top runners. Then the spec came out at 15k (not sure what it is now). And when the same guys that were winning races before started running specs and winning guess what? You went and got one to run up front.....with all the concern for car counts, anyone want to go backwards?

With todays technology, good 9:1's, steel heads and specs produce more hp AND torque than any racetrack they run on can handle. 2750lbs and 10" tires can only handle so much. In SLM racing today its all about car and driver.

To address your 550hp motor, wether your running against Russell's spec, Roger's 9:1, or Scofields steel head, your bringing a knife to a gunfight. I wish I knew what to tell you. But to descriminate against one doesn't seem right.

[Mike Bresnahan]

Tim I'm not sure you get what dd38 is trying to say. I completely understand his point. I will use Daniel Webster as an example, he's a good lil driver and is on a pretty tight budget and I think he would admit it's a struggle just to get to the track and buy tires. He's got a really good progressive steel head, and when fresh prob made around 575 hp. The specs have well over 600, have aluminum heads so the weight is lower in the car, big bore short stroke plus other advantages, yet Daniel has to choke his engine down with same size restrictor... Yes racing is about keeping up with the Jones, but there are still far more steel head engines sitting than there are Specs racing... You can't just tell a guy "oh well, go dump another 15k for a new engine, this is super racing". My answer to that is, no it's a HOBBY. It's supposed to be fun. People taking it too serious and trying to make a career out of a weekend hobby have taken the FUN out of it for many.

[Tim]

I definately understand his point as well....there are steel heads producing 600+, 9:1 590-595, and specs at 604-610.....then dave at 550. So what do you do in the rulebook for Dave or daniel?

[dd38]

I never run out and bought anything. First my budget won't allow it. And you are partly right. There are steel head engines out there making that. But with after market heads. They just in the last year changed that rule. Mine still has Bow Tie heads on it. Plus you are not gonna beat the torque of a spec engine since it is a STROKER!!! Thanks Mike B. for understanding my vue. BTW, I have brought a knife to a gunfight and won.

[Tim]

Again Dave, the top 9:1, Steel head and spec are producing more torque than the car can handle.....your out of excuses.....but i like the fact that your not afraid of a gunfight. Thats good character! Now prove it! Go RACE!!!

For the first time in SLM racing that I'm aware of, part of the set up in practice is de-tuning their motors.....the principle of the spec motor was "keep your hood shut and work on your car"....its done that....only now their opening the hood to add restrictors to hook them up...so are the drivers running other types of motors...Its all about USABLE power....

[Mike Bresnahan]

I will be the first to admit I'm not up to date on the new super rules. When the spec first came out I had a 2 month old ( freshened) progressive steel head that made 575. The spec made 615 was a stroker, had aluminum heads and also got a 50 lb weight break. I would run my steel head against any so called 600 hp steel head any day... But all the other added benefits of the spec start to stack the deck. Agreed, in a perfect would I would have just went and got a spec, but budget wasn't there, and it's not there for many others.

Eventually there will be enough used specs on the market that budget racers will find a way to get their hands on one.

[Tim]

Also Dave, since you've never owned one, asked any racer that drove a big steel head motor what his first impression of the spec was, he'll tell you it was a dog......big crank that takes a while to get turning, but hang on when it does....

[Rick Williamson]

You call this staying out of it??? Its a discussion board......I believe.Have a nice day!!

Well it's just that this is over the heads of most of us on this board. Yes including me.

[openwm53]

Hey Mike

Car looked good at citrus last week........is that a crate motor ?

[Bigbuck]

Well it's just that this is over the heads of most of us on this board. Yes including me.

Rick, I simply said its too bad they have to combine 2-3 divisions and create another one in order to make a decent field. I find the thread interesting and a chance to learn, thats why I'm on here. I also asked if the car is legal or not? Nothing more or less. Like I said its all none of my business except I'm a fan and yes I think I have the right to ask a question. I KNOW everyone on the thread know more than I do about it, unless you and I are equal which I doubt, you probably know more than I do. BUT, obviously someone else either don't know or are just being biased because there's so much disagreement. My point was this hp, that hp, this weight, that weight, is the crate car legal or not? Theres a big differance sometimes between "legal" and "fair" Thats all I asked. If its legal, its legal. I don't know, but if it is he should be allowed to race, if he wins he wins. In that case maybe the rules need to be tweeked OR the bigger hp cars need to, as is so often said, "Do their home work" I am big fans of several of the Supers, but if they get outrun, they get outrun. Are all the other cars just field fillers? I think everyones doing a good job making this FUPS thing work, but no matter how it all turns out someone will be unhappy. And now we all will be unhappy because it sounds like 2-3 less cars will run and we'll be right back to 5-6 Supers, I hope all of this works out.

[jeff 28]

legal or not

sorry i guess i never answered that,yes it is it has been taken by ASA and checked,sent back a wk latter,demed legal all they could find was epoxy on the venturies on carb made me remove it,for all out there that thinks its all motor,stanton dodge out of kentuky has plenty for sale! jeff