I think I'm done with racing....

[Andy S]

"Now this should get good based on past history - the notion that Govt get involved in racing...whoa boy - these guys nearly shat themselves over everything that DIDNT have to do with racing - now we have closed the circle....awaiting anti-govt rant from many that are your buddies in 3..2..1..."

If that's aimed at me - which I'm assuming it is - then this is nothing to do with the Governments. It's all run through the sanctioning bodies, either just the local clubs that hire the tracks out for their series, the national authorities that oversee the sport in their own country, or the international bodies at the top level of competition. The Governments don't particularly have a say in it at all.

[bubba]

Yea, Andy it was, and fortunately you clarified, I could only imagine the hemorrage some of these folks would have had!

[SeminoleWind]

I used to completely agree with Osmosois, until this season. 13 year old Chase Elliott (yes, Bill's boy), was one of the fastest, smoothest drivers in the GAS series in 2009. Sure, Cup engineered equipment doesn't hurt anyone, but you still have to drive it.
I now take each young driver on an individual basis. Some are as good or even better than the seasoned vets, others barely belong in the entry level class, much less pulling in the infield with their picture painted across the double stacked tractor trailer. There is a reason those kids need to bring 2 cars!

[N.Rowe]

OJ

When is a good time to call you? Didn't know if you are on a shift or not!

[Andy S]

Yea, Andy it was, and fortunately you clarified, I could only imagine the hemorrage some of these folks would have had!

Thankfully the British Government has learned not to interfere too much with the sport governing bodies back home. They realized early on that amateur sportsmen are also a LOT of registered voters, so they don't want to upset them. All it really takes is sanctioning bodies with some real teeth, which from my reading of this board is something both the fans and drivers seem to be crying out for.

[Frasson118]

Wouldn't these kids that everyone is defending, still posess the same talents at the age of 16, rather than 12 or 13? Everyone that has raised teenagers can attest to the FACT that they are irrational at times, immature at others, and downright defiant sometimes. They do NOT belong in a full-sized racecar.

Mr Dunn can document why (he feels) his son has paid his dues, and in his words DESERVES to be out there... he feels strongly that there is nothing wrong with someone with all that experience being held back until an older age.

I disagree.

I don't feel that kids under the age of 16 should even be IN the pits in the first place, let alone behind the wheel of a racecar. That's is the age for Karts, possibly Legends... and even then, should only be racing with other kids with relatively the same level of maturity. The better racers will become obvious, while the trouble kids will also reveal themselves. At least we'd find out which is which, without the unneccessary risks and costs of the upper classes.

When I mentions "costs", I don't just mean this kids race team... I mean the costs involved for the other poor sap who got his stuff wiped out by some punk kid who has the attitude that "Daddy will just get me another one".

Yes... I agree with OJ to some extent. The PARENTS are the fools that allow this crap to happen. When I was 13 I would have killed to have a full-blown raceteam, paid mechanics, spares for everything... but would it have been the RIGHT thing to do??? I think not. For the fearless (and rich) kids, sure it would be the thrill of a lifetime.

I don't see ANY 13 year olds in the NFL, Major League Baseball, Boxing or anything else like it... regardless of what family he grew up in, how many games he QB'd in the Pop Warner League, or how many Homers he got in Little League. They have to be a certain AGE before any of the "moving up the ladder" scenarios are even possible.

And I don't recall very many kids DYING in those other sports either! In racing, it is a very real possibility everytime the window net goes up.

If anyone is to blame, I blame the racetracks that ALLOW stupid decisions to be made... either by parents OR kids. If the tracks didn't allow it at all, NONE of this debate would even be happening!

[mr south 59]

So let's say 16 is the age. Would you guys feel better about racing against 20 year old jonny who has never driven anything on a track but an x-box on his sofa or little 15 year old stevie who already raced at over 50 tracks and about 1000 starts?

I just don't get the age thing. Start racing 'um as young as you can get 'em started and move 'um up as soon as they are ready. That has to be better than waiting until they are of age and send them out in a LM for their first start. But than again, I guess they are old enough so they will do just fine. Good luck with that.

If you start them young and they don't want to do it they will let you know. Just ask Matt Martin.

[Osmosis Jones]

Nancy....

I'll send ya a Private Message with all my numbers....

Matt

[Frasson118]

"Start racing 'um as young as you can get 'em started and move 'um up as soon as they are ready"

So... you're saying that you'd feel comfortable letting an 8 year old boy, with 5 years of Kart experience, start right next to, or directly behind YOUR son?

This is the really bad thought process that OJ is talking about. I think you just proved HIS point about parents deserving a bunch of the blame.

Wow!

[mr south 59]

You talk about maturity level and keeping them together. That was screwed up in karting also. By the time dustin was 8 his he was winning everything in the 8-10 year old class in florida. He won 101 races in 104 starts and the state championship. He won 66 races in a row in as 66 race series. We would of liked to move him up to the 10-12 year old class with kid at his driving level instead of kid in his age group. They would not allow it. Maturity has nothing ot do with driving ability. They should have kept the driving levels together. If you tried to get your 15 year old into karting at 15 they would have to race in the 12 to 15 class and the 12 year olds that have been racing since 5 would stomp them into the ground. It has nothing to do with maturity. Why do you think schools move kids up grade levels when needed. There are 9 year olds in collage. I guess they shouldn't be there either. Right. Some kids accel quicker than others. It has nothing to do with age. More about ability.

In FKA they have an Unlimited Allstar class.(50 plus HP karts) You have to be 18 to run in it but just because you are 18 doesn't mean you can run in it. You have to be judged by your peers before you are allowed to race with them. Dustin was the first 16 year old to be allowed to run with them. It wasn't because he was mature but because of his driving ability.

It should be like that in all classes.

[mr south 59]

Frasson, try to keep it real. Nowhere do they allow 8 year olds in LM but they do allow 12 year olds. And yes I would feel much more comfortable letting that 12 year old with 5 years karting experiance start next to Dustin than I would letting that 20 year old that has never driven anything on track before start next to dustin. Period. No questions asked. Just because that 20 year old is old enough race don't mean squat. He has no driving ability. I didn't have a provblem with 13 year old Brian Blaney starting on the front row with us at Orange Co in his first LM race and I didn't have a problem with Bill's kid Chase. Remember we are racing ASA. We have to put up with this every race.

[cake]

oj

i cant believe they suspended your account before... your post made the most sense out of any ive read on this wall in a long time.

[mr south 59]

Frasson, tell me this. Would you feel more comfortable with 20 year old johnie who has never driven anything on a track starting his first LM race next to YOUR kid. He does meet the age requidement. Or would you feel better if 15 year old Dustin with 10 yrs karting and Fastruck experiance starting in his first LM race next to YOUR kid.

Try to answer trulfully. I did.

[Osmosis Jones]

Sorry....

....but that is a completely illogical thing to say.

"Maturity has nothing to do with driving ability."

Maturity means to have reached full development. Full development as a racer has nothing to with driving ability? I'm gonna have to call "bullshit" on that one. To me racing has never been JUST the ability to work the steering wheel and pedals. I think a driver MATURES as he goes along. Learning to race side by side with another driver while maintaining control of his vehicle and his emotions. Learning what makes a chassis respond in different ways. Learning how to deal with another driver that is two generations removed from cro-magnon man after going dooor to door for 10 laps. Learning why he/she just got disqualified for that funny looking thing that goes on top of the engine deal in the front of the car. Learning how to tell the guys in the pits that on the restarts it feels like the clutch is starting to slip a little bit but not being sure if it's a rear seal leaking or just residual fluid from the leaking hydraulic throwout bearing he replaced Thursday night after practice.

It's never been just about the driving. But then I grew up working in my dad's repair shop and building race cars from the shop floor up. I wanted to race from the time I was old enough to pedal my narrow ass down the sidewalk on my Big Wheel. I was born to live and breath this stuff. And having built and raced my own stuff, I can understand what Andy is saying about looking over and seeing this little kid who looks like he is sitting on a few phonebooks to see over the dash, getting ready to make his debut in a Late Model they just purchased last week. That's got to be more than a little nerve racking for some guy who has three years worth of working and saving invested in his ride waiting to get taken out by a kid who is sitting there in the staging lanes playing with and turning the little round thingy that says brake bias on it.

Maturity has EVERYTHING to do with RACING ability.

A nine year old in college? And you are for something like this just because he has some genetic anomaly that makes his comprehension ability freakishly abnormal? (read that carefully as I don't want you to think I'm calling this little tyke a freak, his ability is abnormal because the majority of children his age brain's function at a collectively lower and accepted as NORMAL average) Yeah....because he aced an SAT test he's ready to live in a dorm with 3 other testosterone packed 19 year olds drinking beer and painting their bodies up for homecoming. At eleven he could be President of the Greek council and really shake things up. Come on. Thing about what you're saying here.

Apparently you don't have to be 18 to run in that big motor class. If they alter their rules then it's not a rule anymore. It's a guideline. I'm okay with a group of experienced peers letting a kid with umpteen thousand carting wins join in with a group of older go carters. In a carting race. Because carts are for kids. You learn in them and then when you're old enough, you move up and out. That's why your son doesn't drive one anymore, right?

[Osmosis Jones]

At least.....

In that 20 years maybe Johnnie has had a few years working in the pits alongside his dad or somebody else along with a few years of practical vehicle operation while driving on the roads to and from work, track, girlfriends, parole officer.....maybe he has learned to respect the damage a full sized vehicle can inflict....even though he can't vote for Obama, he is considered an adult now so when he pile drives your car into the wall then gets out and wants to fight you can defend yourself without the fear of going to jail for assault on a minor....and who's to say that 40 year old first year driver is any better than either of the two youngsters....we have all seen people who did not belong on the track, in the pits or anywhere near a race shop.....yet they still come out and wreck the leader as he is lapping them.


Lotsa maybes here and we can go back and forth forever

Just agree to disagree. Post how you feel and don't worry about defending yourself or your son. It's not gonna change how you do things anyways, is it?