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I think I'm done with racing....

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  • I think I'm done with racing....

    Yeah. I've had just about enough.

    There's a post down below here somewhere that shows a guy that I used to have tons of respect for as a racer. Hell of a driver. This is a guy has raced all over and won against some pretty big names in the asphalt Late Model world. I guess I still think at least that much about him.

    What is it, you might ask, that lets me know that racing, as a sport, has finally just gone to hell in a handbag? I guess it's seeing that someone who I used to hold in such high regard and absolutely loved the fact that he had both his boys in a bare bones beginners class of car and teaching them the basics of racing, has become another one of these daddies who see the ability to hold a steering wheel and push on a pedal as a green light to stuff their pride and joy into a Late Model.

    For the life of me I can't fathom what qualities these parents are perceiving in their children's (and yes I said CHILDREN's) under-developed, newly acquired talents that make them lose all focus on reality and think, "Let's stick Junior (or Junior Miss) in the fastest thing with fenders we can find and see what they can do!"....I used to think maybe it was just me and that I was just getting too old and codgerly. Maybe I'm just not seeing this one thing that stands out and says that this kid needs to be straddling 800hp and who cares if he's never driven anything bigger than a Honda.
    Yeah....I thought it was me for about 15-20 seconds.
    Then I got an image of a 14 year old kid, you know, the one who has to be reminded to put a seatbelt on as he rides in the passenger seat of his mom's minivan while on his way to middle school, I think of how this kid is gonna react when the throttle sticks wide open on that 2800 lb Super Late Model as it jumps the tire barrier, climbs the wall and flips onto it's roof before catching fire after landing upside down in the parking lot. I wonder what kind of previous life challenges and adventures has this kid had, in his 14 long years, that could possibly make him ready to handle something that harrowing. Other than the awesome graphics on his latest Xbox car chase game, I mean......but I know, I know....those kind of crashes NEVER happen anymore. These cars are so safe now. Look at all that metal around him/her. Look at all the safety gear they can wear these days. Why...they're safe as kittens...yep....safe as kittens....

    Then I think of a race I saw a few years ago where one driver, after believing he had been done wrong by another driver, drove his car the length of the straightaway and pile drove who he thought was the offending driver's car into the turn three wall. Oops. It wasn't the guy he thought had hit him. That guy was parked on the front stretch. That guy was a 16 year old boy in his second race in a Late Model Sportsman. Well, hitting the wrong car had only made the first driver angrier so he set off for the young lad who was taunting him while walking across the infield. Luckily, for the boy, he began running when he did because it was quite a long way to the protective custody of Daddy Warbuck's motorhome. He just made it inside when the fighting began. So, how about that poor, innocent sap who got stuffed in the wall? He got a broken arm and a broken racecar. All because the kid's dad had bought his old car which was still painted like his new car. But...he was an adult who took an adult chance by being on the track with other adults. What if the first guy had hit the "right" car? What if he had caught the kid before he could get to his trailer? Think a guy crazy enough to run into another car on the track under caution is going to say, "Oh, it's just a kid" and leave it at that? Yeah...sure...and I have a track in Lakeland for sale, too.

    In the end, it's the parents who have to wise up and act like responsible adults. Track owners and promoters (and especially in these economic times) are not going to do the parenting for them. They need all the back gate receipts they can get their hands on and usually that motorhome and the toterhome hauling the 53' trailer bring in about 15-20 extra people with them. They could care less about the welfare of your kid. Hell...that's what that paper you sign at the back gate is for. They may even pay for the ride in the ambulance, but don't count on it. There's probably a codecil in there somewhere that says they don't have to pay if the ambulance goes to All Children's Hospital.
    But why would a parent worry? Most tracks have all the latest, greatest, cutting edge rescue equipment and a fleet of trained personnel on hand to make sure your child can be extricated from the twisted, burning hunk of metal just as fast as humanly possible. Hey, the car came with a 10lb fire bottle...and one of those ATL fuel thingies in the back...no worries.

    I really hope I've scared the shit out of some parent who thinks it is sane and prudent to stick their kid in a full blown Late Model or Sprint Car at any age where they haven't even had the experience of driving a vehicle on the public roadways. This isn't Little League football, baseball or hockey, people. The ugly and painful consequences aren't chipped teeth and fractured long bones. These are dangerously fast MACHINES that don't have the ability to comprehend that an immature and fearless kid is sitting at the controls. Is a dozen or so years really long enough to have enjoyed the company of that freckle faced kid who just yesterday came home with the news of their first crush or that they had made the deans list their freshman year of high school? Are you ready to trade all that away for the sensation of spending gobs of money just to watch that same kid drive around in a racecar they aren't nearly ready enough to handle with the better than good chance that they could make the slightest mistake with the gravest of outcomes? Again, I hope I have really scared the LIVING SHIT out of somebody who had the gumption to read this entire diatribe.

    Think about it parents.

    Somebody has to be the adult here.


    Racing?......nope....it's not racing anymore. There used to be a kind of code among racers. An unwritten set of rules that everyone lived by. Maybe even an honor about it. I dunno. Whatever was there...well, it's gone now. Has been for some time. NASCAR has been ruined for so long that it's become a joke. Short track racing didn't take too long to follow, either.



    Yeah...I'm done with it.

  • #2
    Does this mean you won't be at the next Bandelaro race?

    Comment


    • #3
      I am sorry you are done with racing but I also see what you are saying. Today, NASCAR teaches everyone you need to be young to ever make it and so now people are racing younger and younger although you still need to be 14 at most tracks to get behind a racecar. They start out in Quarter Midgets, move to Bandoleros and Legends, and then go into stockcars. Hopefully they learn in those quarter midgets and bandoleros and legends what real sportsmanship is and not so much what revenge is.

      I have watched alot of Bandoleros and Legends over the years and seen a number of good drivers come out of them. The only problem there is when they win in those divisions and become the "big dog" they think it will happen just like that when they do move up and it doesn't. Some continue on, others quit because they can't win right off the bat.

      I hate to say this but I have seen parents that push their kids too hard, tell them to take out someone, and know nothing of the word sportsmanship. This is not what they are suppose to be learning but we have no control over any parents.

      There are alot of good kids out there - Jermey Colangelo, Patrick Conrad, Brandon Thomson just to name a few who are good racers and good sportsman. Don't let the few bad apples spoil your love for racing because there are good ones also. And if you want to blame someone, blame NASCAR because they are the ones who have made some parents like they are. You have to make it young, young, young or you won't make it. So they may beat and bang their way to a championship but not gain the one thing every racer does want - RESPECT from the fans.

      My son is almost 17 and he ran a Strictly Stock for a few years at Orlando SpeedWorld. Even with his crab claw hands, that little stinker can race. But I told him from the very first time he got behind a wheel, you take someone out on purpose, YOU ARE OUT OF THE CAR. And as far as I know, he never did. He raced clean and had a ball. And yes, he still wants to race at Volusia in the 4 Cylinder Challengers but mom does not have money for a car and Doug Webb and Pedie Allison, who gave him cars to run, are not at Volusia although Jared does now own his own dirt modified.

      But they would have not done these things for Alex if he had been like the person you are describing.

      So really think about it because there are good kids out there who should race and are responsible enough to race. Like I said, don't let the bad apples take away your love for racing. There are alot of good apples still out there.

      Have a great day.

      Jane

      Comment


      • #4
        It's a really interesting perspective on all of this. I must admit that I was amazed at the ages of some of the drivers out there on the track when I heard of them as there must be 4 or 5 teenagers out there racing on any given night at the local tracks.

        What makes what OJ is saying so interesting to me is that as he points out, the majority of them seem to be out there in the fastest, most expensive cars. You're not hearing about 15yr olds really tearing it up in the Superstocks or Ministocks, they're all out there in the fanciest trucks and SLMs. To me that just leads to one conclusion - the way society values youth and young prodigies so highly now, and is willing to discount people so quickly as being 'too old' to be take seriously in sports, is encouraging families to push their kids right into those higher classes as soon as humanly possible so they don't have to 'waste' a few years learning their craft and working their way up through the classes on merit.

        Why would a family, or the young racer themself, with an eye on a lucrative national drive or even a NASCAR contract want to waste 3 or 4 years actually learning how to race when the decision makers might view them as 'too old' because, even though they've got class wins and experience, they're now 20 and there's a 15yr old winning the occassional race in a super-tricked up SLM at the same track. There's no incentive to take your time and do it the old way any more.

        I think OJ hits on an interesting issue, but how much of it is just a racing issue and not a bigger issue in society?

        Comment


        • #5
          AMEN brother!!! And I DO mean AMEN! Couldn't have possbily said it better.
          Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary but GLORY is FOREVER!! Or, the older I get the faster I WAS!

          Comment


          • #6
            a touchy subject....

            i agree with you Andy... society is alot to blame for our children living in adult worlds. i think children need their youth to learn how to be adults but at the same time enjoy the very few years they have to be children.
            the drivers Jane mentioned all are old enough to hold legitimate drivers licenses. Some of our kids between 12 and 15 are driving late model cars. i personally think it is wrong. there are way too many reasons why but we all know what they are. Lets just take Casey Caudill for instance. He is 14. Looks like 19. Tall and handsome and soft spoken. if he makes a mistake on the track i have heard people say some vile things to him. he is a kid! he has been threatened by adults.. little Tyler Laing... he has so much growing up to do. ive seen him lose total control in situations. he is such a good KID !!! but he is a kid.There are some who are always more mature than some of the adults. but it still takes from their childhood. running with their friends on bike hikes, and alot of other things. To be a good LM racer takes alot of time and work during the week. time when kids should be studying.
            If dad is doing all the work and paying for all of it how does the kid learn that kind of responsibility?
            I have very close friends who have kids in late models. this is just my opinion and i know they respect it even if they dont agree. Matt, you brought this subject up right after i posted the pic of Billy and his son. as much as i love them i was surprised to see Dylan in a late model. i cant be honest in my opinion if i omit friends...
            NASCAR might wait til a kid such as Joey Logano turn 18 but by that time he had already been in late models for a few years.
            Perhaps if there was a junior class of LM racers. In other words, dont mix the 13 year olds with adults on the track at the same time. AND MAKE THE RULES TOUGH! they need discipline. its a touchy subject because some of the real young kids have become exemplary drivers. some of the LM kids NEED the veterans on track to keep them in line. So what it amounts to is if you throw your kid in the lions den, dont cry if the lion eats him/her...it was your choice as an adult to allow your young child to enter ....
            I dont think a kid who is too young to get a valid drivers license should be allowed to race in the upper classes... SLM, LLM, OWM, ...I think they should have to wait...these are just my opinions and no one needs to get mean. racing will be what it will be whether i, or you, like it or not. ;-)
            carolwicks aka OZ
            Last edited by carolwicks; 11-02-2009, 12:21 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Heavy sigh.....

              I was going to send you a PM, Carol, but after I thought about it.....well, that's just not my style. And because my response to you just brings up another point that needs to be made.

              And I'll be as respectful as I can.

              Like always....you cannot have it both ways. You cannot on one hand, cheer and congratulate someone for the ability to sit behind the wheel of Late Model and steer it around the track then on the other hand state how you dissaprove of the very same action in another thread. It just doesn't work that way in the real world. We either live by our convictions and stand behind our beliefs or we are labeled liars and our word has become a junk bond.

              Too many people want to jump on the bandwagon of some 14 year old kids win from the pole in a 11 car race on a one groove track with a $50,000 dollar LM....but then, once out of earshot, they'll say they don't think little kids should be racing these big, fast cars. I think that's called covering one's bases so just in case this kid IS the next Joey Logano, they can say, "Oh yeah. I knew him when he won his first race. Been a big fan since he was in the womb." Or if they happen to cause an 11 car crash and destroy 4 other cars from teams that DON'T have three more sitting back at the shop, they can say, "See...that's why kids shouldn't be driving these things. I knew something like this would happen."

              If this(kids racing LM/Sprint/OWM) is something you TRULY don't believe in, then why don't you speak up and post your TRUE opinions about the subject instead of trying to be a cheerleader. I understand this is hard for you as you are controlled more by emotions than facts, but it might go a long way to people taking you seriously with your posts.


              On an unrelated note:

              Andy is right. When a kid washes out at 20, after a stellar career of top 15 finishes, how will it feel to him to be yesterday's news? And he won't even be old enough to drown his sorrows in a beer after that 15 year old punk puts him in the wall. Not much use these days for a has been teenage phenom. Oprah hasn't scheduled many of those for a sofa side chat, lately.

              I like how you think, Andy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Whether we like it or not, let's face it. It's too late, WAY too late to try to put the genie back in the bottle. It's not right to put kids in pro level cars, nobody will ever make me believe otherwise. They are NOT ready for that kind of responsibility and risk. Karts, minisprints, legends, modlites etc....the risk factor is more than enough at that level and they're plenty fast and challenging to develop drivers skill levels. There is NO way that they belong out there in sprint cars, late models etc. Let me ask you this, if it's ok to send a 13 or 14 year old out there in harms way with the adults then how come it's NOT ok to send them off to war to die, how come they are NOT allowed to vote, drink, drive a car on the highways, buy adult magazines or watch adult movies..........come ON people, how STUPID are these people who think it's ok to throw them to the wolves with the big dogs!
                Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary but GLORY is FOREVER!! Or, the older I get the faster I WAS!

                Comment


                • #9
                  OJ

                  i appreciate your honesty and respect. you are 100% correct. I do tend to lead with my heart many times before my brain. The Bigleys are such close friends i felt some sort of happiness and pride that he and Dylan "rode" together and that as a family they are always together... but at the same time i think Dylan should be more involved with child like affairs... such as school supported things. his kids have known little else but racing and it is in the blood. i think its ok that dylan was in the Pro 4s etc. Billy worked by his side all the time. but i dont think its ok for him to be in a late model. he isnt my son so it really doesnt matter what i think..
                  i agree fully with you and Ted... at one time i vocally spoke out against kids racing big cars. we even devoted one of our radio shows to that subject ... somehow there has been so much of it since then that i became desensitized..i have seen these kids attacked verbally and nearly physically. have seen their dads get into trouble too. i have been approached many times to get bobby involved. i am happy he is totally engrossed in Soccer.
                  So with all that said OJ... i am in agreement with you and i am happy that we have been able to talk without being nasty. it was a double edged sword with me. i was happy dylan raced a good race but not happy he was doing it.
                  Mark Martin is positive proof there are plenty of good racing years. even if you do start when you get a license... ;-)
                  OJ... i cant stand hurting people and especially friends. so sometimes i get wishy washy... also sometimes i have mixed feelings as everyone else...i can take criticism and i can debate but i hate people telling me to STFU or intentionally batter me with insults. but this is cut and dry... let kids be kids... they have plenty of years to be adults. i wish we could have always talked like this because you are intelligent and it can be fun to debate. it just isnt fun to be hurt or humiliated. we are all a little guilty. i have taken a racing sabbatical... lol have only been to one race in 5 months. never missed one for a decade or more. i needed time to sit back and look from the outside in... sometimes its an entirely different view and you can see things clearer... hope so anyways. ;-)
                  carolwicks aka OZ
                  Last edited by carolwicks; 11-02-2009, 01:21 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think there's another side to this too, the more I think about it, and one that's probably never spoken of but must dig into the older, experienced drivers out on the track.

                    If you've actually done it the right way, worked your way up through the classes, and are driving a car paid for and maintained out of your own pocket, there must be some kind of issues going on when you sit in your car knowing the car alongside you is a rocketship being piloted by a 15yr old. I'd love to know from the racers on here just how much that plays on their minds when they're out on the track racing. If you see a gap that you might get through but it involves some risk to yourself or the car you're overtaking, does it play through the driver's head that the person he could potentially be putting into the wall is a school-age boy or girl?

                    I also wonder how much the lack of experience in both racing and general life plays on the driver's minds. Motorsports in particular rely on a level of trust amongst the drivers, not least having to trust the other drivers to take the right actions to avoid big crashes. There'll always be novices in every class to worry the seasoned racers, but I really don't know how I'd feel out there in a $50,000 investment of a car knowing my own safety is relying heavily on the decision-making ability of a 14yr old boy in a big, fast piece of metal lapping that track.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      All kids are not created equal and shouldn't be judged equal. From the grandstands most people are judging buy age and have no idea of the kids experience.

                      Let's take my kid for example. At the track since birth watching brother and father race. Started driving karts at 4. Started racing at 5. Won first championship at 6. Started working part time for a race track at 8. Vice President of said track at 12. 421 state and national wins by 13. Started racing Fastrucks at 13. Moved to Fast Late Models at 15. Won first LM race at 15. Started working for Orbit racing on 16th birthday in a high school work program. Became tire specialist for Orbit at 17. He was the only person under 18 over pit wall in Americian La Mans Series at 17. Finished 2nd in ASA standings at 18.

                      What age do you think I should have waited till to put him in a full sized stock car? 14? 16? 18? Why should age be the factor. There are adults on the track with kids that old that shouldn't be on the track like the one OJ spoke of that wrecked the wrong car. What does age have to do with it? Sounds to me that he don't deserve to be there or be on the track with my kid.
                      .
                      So just because you here a driver is under age dose not mean he or she does not deserve to be out on the track. SOME of them have every right and have EARNED it.

                      Alls I am saying is don't judge EVERY kid by their age. Age should not be the determining factor.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mr south 59 View Post
                        SOME of them have every right and have EARNED it.
                        I think that's absolute right, but the issue seems to be proving that the driver really has earned it and is competent enough to be out there. I'm really not sure how to do that, other than a method I've seen used back in Europe.

                        Excuse my ignorance in this, but am I right in thinking that I could go out, but a top of the line SLM, pay my pit gate and race entry fee, and as long as it passed tech and I had all the required safety gear I could just take it out on the track and race it?

                        Well, in Europe for most motorsports you have to have a competition licence - this is tied to a regular medical that shows you're fit enough to withstand racing, and gives the track officials some kind of bargaining power with the drivers. Licences can get suspended or endorsed for breaking rules, and being a country or continent-wide licence means that rule-breaking at one track means no racing until the suspension is lifted.

                        But what makes the licence work so well is that it can be progressive - you have to demonstrate your competency in the lower classes to progress and move up to faster equipment. So everyone starts as a novice in one of the lower classes, where you prove yourself and that you're safe, and your licence gets endorsed to allow you to move up. You start again as a novice (in bike racing that means wearing an orange jacket to warn other riders until you finish a certain number of races safely) and you stay there until you prove, through results or standardized tests, that you can handle the move up.

                        Of course, all that requires a central set of rules and testing, but maybe that would prevent people - both young and old - just jumping into a class they're not prepared for and can't handle.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Now this should get good based on past history - the notion that Govt get involved in racing...whoa boy - these guys nearly shat themselves over everything that DIDNT have to do with racing - now we have closed the circle....awaiting anti-govt rant from many that are your buddies in 3..2..1...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I wasn't going to coment on this but I must. In the 50+ years involved I have seen some youngsters that could drive the wheels off anything that Wheels. I won't mention any names but in all those years I have only seen a handfull that couldn't cut the mustard. Most have excelled in the sport in various classes. I can remember one individual that was driving a Mini Stock and doing well so Dad bought him a late Model the following season. From the begining he wrecked any body around him. I can remember him winning a few but I think that was because the other drivers were afraid he would put them in the wall. He tore up a lot of equipment needlessly. I can recall another youngster that Raced go carts for a couple years and Dad put him in a Late Model and He excelled and is still excelling. So where do you draw the line? I have known the Bigley family for the good part of 30 years and their whole family since the day I have known them have been involved in racing. Dillion has grown up living racing. He has never cared about the things other boys might do. He is a racer. I have watched Dillion since he first started in tstock cars at Desoto in I think 2004. He has a head on his shoulders. He makes good decisions and I see Adults that have been racing 35+ years that don't make good decisions. One I can think of raced last Sat at CCMP in the same race Dillion debuted in. Honestly if I had a quater for every time I had taped him spinning I could retire agin. I talked to Billy, Dillions daddy, Sat and I told him I'd have given my left n-- to have had 1 of my boys drive with me. Thats special! All that being said, the only reservation I have is That I am afraid that at a young age some won't always make mature decisions.
                            But like I said I see adults make stupid decisions every week. And they are tanked up at times, thats even worse. To address Andys comment. I as a driver would feel funny to be passed by a 14 year old but I don't think it would effect the way I drove him. When you belt into a race car you are 1 with the whole field. Something that I see missing in recent years is mutual respect on the track. young or old that should be your 1st priority. Thats my $.02 Bob...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Andrew......

                              the posts i am answering this time will be direct and not taking friendship into account. ;-) we all understand that some kids have more ability than others. it is the ones without the ability that we are concerned about. and you cant pick some and give them the ok and others not. so the sensible thing would be to make a constant rule. NO KID UNDER LEGAL DRIVING AGE CAN RACE such and such.......Kids should not be racing against seasoned pros who, in fact, dont want to be track babysitters.
                              Dustin and many other kids are awesome racers but the rule has to be constant for ALL drivers in an age group. it cannot be decided by ability. just like the laws or rules... ;-) you can be the best driver in the world but D/L people will still not give you a license til you are of legal age.
                              There are dads just like you who are just as serious... they are wonderful dads who are spending quality time with their sons. each dad hopes his son will wind up a champion... we all know how seldom it is that happens. age HAS to be the factor because nothing else is consistant. ;-)
                              carol aka oz

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