Bowman Gray Stadium

[lmzero]

Kevin, While totally disagree with you as far as the surface at Ocala Speedway, You are totally correct as far as the old All American Challenge Series purses. No question the best purse structure I have ever raced for,and it is funny you bring it up as other drivers and owners that ran that series still talk about how great the purse was to this day.

[Frasson118]

Unfortunately, Kevin's last statement is all too true. This state, at least in the Asphalt segment, is overloaded with know-it-all personalities that will NOT work with each other for the betterment of the sport. John S. won't work with anyone, Bobby will let anything run that has the correct decals on the nose of the car, Fascar has lost almost ALL of the support they once had from racers... it seems only Citrus can bring a full field, and they are always out on their own island. Their guys pretty much run at Citrus and that's it.

It would have to be "Club/member" driven. Much like the TBARA. Be able to take a package to a promoter with a promise of 25-30 cars they can bring to your track, along with their own officials, flagmen, tech people... it needs to be completely self-reliant. Leave the cooperation of Promoters out of the picture... you won't get it anyways.

On the plus side (for a series to work) is the fact that basically ZERO tracks run LM's on a weekly basis. There's a fair amount of LM's out there, and I bet at least a few would be willing to do some travel... IF they feel like they have a shot against the high-dollar teams. Right now, 90% of the LM racers don't stand even a remote chance against Russell, Anderson, Choquette and very few others. If you don't stand a chance, why bother to go?

All of our Asphalt tracks have the potential to put on great LM shows, but we, the fans, never get to see them, with the fast cars ALWAYS starting up front.

The old Fla Pro series, and the USA series each had a lot of racer support, until they went head-to-head. It didn't take long for BOTH series to drown. And to race in Sunbelt, you had better bring a shitload of cash to rent the track for a day, cover all the expenses of the night-before practice sessions, and a pile of new tires you can fling on every time you'd like new skins. Face it.... very few teams can afford that, and therefore they never had a shot at a win. So most stayed home... and it too died.

There HAS to be a way that the Joe Average LM driver can bring home a win or a top-5 once in a while, At least enough earned from the purse to plan on being at the next show.

These policies have kissed the asses of the well-funded teams for far too long. And take a wild guess why??? The tracks (not the series or it's competitors) benefits from these policies that it allows. This doesn't happen in DIRT, Lucas Oil, World of Outlaws, ISMA, or countless other sanctioning bodies. They come, race, and go to the next race. When these shows come to a track, the sanctioning body calls the shotrs for their division... NOT the local track Promoter.

"You cover the purse, we'll bring you a show that fans will be willing to pay for".

[The Ocala Speedway]

Kevin:
"These vehicles are more expensive than any Super Late Models that may show up at any event in Florida"
Correct, however they pay less than the asphalt late models in Fl.

"You are absolutely correct about a limited race date schedule and this seems to work well for tracks my NC region. My comment to you on this fact is that "followers are never leaders" and just because no one else has done it or is "
If everyone doesn't do it you lose the benefit because drivers keep on racing.

" A limit on the number of cars that start a feature event is fine"
We do 24. Since going to dirt we do have to send cars home.

"The problem is, I don't think we could get the support of the track owners. "
I'll support you! I'll be happy to be the first guy in the state to run asphalt cars on the dirt for a night or two. The dirt late models do it now at Bobby Diehl's place.

"Plus, you wouldn't have to clean the bathrooms as much if you didn't have the dirt to deal with!"
100% spot on.

Frasson:
"Right now, 90% of the LM racers don't stand even a remote chance against Russell, Anderson, Choquette and very few others. If you don't stand a chance, why bother to go?"
That's why qualifying needs to go away.

"There HAS to be a way that the Joe Average LM driver can bring home a win or a top-5 once in a while, At least enough earned from the purse to plan on being at the next show."
There is the same system Bowman uses. They've been using the same line up procedures for 61 years.

Thanks for the healthy conversation. Keep up the tips, I always read the posts on here looking for new ideas. Mike

[georgep]

Mike at Ocala you are the EXCEPTION not the rule. This what a lot on the outside looking in see and some do not like what they see.
When Ocala went back to dirt only good things came of it. Now you have the pavement dying a slow death.
Some do not see it but it is that way for sure. It is harder to build a fast pavement car than a dirt car. The driver on dirt can more than make up for lack of HP under the hood. But on pavement it is a lot about HP.
I know I will get jumped for that but in 50+ years I can tell you that is very true.
The magic answer has not been found and I do not think there is an answer short of an organization like the old DIRT but that hurt racing as much as it helped.
Somebody will figure it out and then you will have a Bowman Grey or a Reading in Florida.

[Darren]

Just thinking.

Go back to the top of this thread, est. 15000 people. Just to keep the number safe, lets say 12,500. Does that many people show up to watch racing in the state of Florida every week to watch. If not, Then if one track became a leader and tried all the Bowman Gray things, how could they lose. I know thinking gets me in trouble.

[Edm]

Great thread, some things that I have taken from this thread.

Decent pay throughout the field instead of winner takes all. The Southern Sportsman Series did this. Great class of cars and people every race.

Limited schedule avoiding the harsh elements (winter). In our case that would be the summer rain. I still don't understand why we don't change our schedules. Maybe common sense will prevail one day.

Strict unbiased rules for on track behavior.

Clean well maintained facility. Been in the bathroom at OSW in the pits lately? Its pretty rough. Auburndales and Ocalas were both very clean.

Good unique food. I can get a lousy hot dog anywhere except Ocala (Zuberdogs are pretty good) but where else can you get a slaw burger. Ribs at Bronson, Mini do-nuts at Ocala, NOTHING at NSS or OSW unless you go to the van in the pits at Osw. Them people have some good food.

Time limits. Getting home at 2 on Sunday morning makes is really hard to be up at 6 for work, or when not working makes it really hard to do anything.
Some races get pretty drawn out. A short action packed race is better then a long boring one any day. Bowman Gray proves that with attendance. Citrus does the same thing and has been successful in recent years.

Promoters consistently working to secure sponsors and promoting the sponsors they secure. The sponsors actually get something in return? I would sponsor something if this track was near my business.

I love the comment "followers are never leaders" I thought Nss and Osw would try something new with their "town hall rules meeting" but they decided to follow the same exact thing that they have been doing for years that has not been working for years. An example: in the sportsman meeting, one owner complained when a new idea came up making the sportsman class a little closer to the rest of the sportsman cars in the state. He "built his car FIVE years ago to the fascar sportsman rules" Instead of being able to modify his car to make it closer to the rest of the sportsmans in the state he felt things should be left alone. He has been to the track once or twice this year with his car. Being that my car matches most sportsman cars in the state but not my home track I have mostly left my car parked because I refuse to hack it up.

[SeminoleWind]

Bowman-Grey is a quarter mile track, so was Sunshine Speedway. The PERFECT size for an asphalt track. They do not require big engines and tires seem to last a few laps more since you are actually racing a shorter distance compared to a 3/8 0r 1/2 miler.
Because the speeds are less, you can place the grandstands right on top of the racing action. Passing is usually at a premium, but when it does happen, it sometimes require the bumper, which seems to excite the fans. The fields also tend to stay more tightly packed because everyone has to heavily brake in the corners.
Correct me if I am wrong, Citrus is a quarter miler as well.
Best racing I ever saw were at Sunshine and Auburndale (I think another 1/4 miler).

[flvideo]

Great thread

Its refreshing to read a thread like this. Some good constructive comments.
Mike I would like to congratulate you and your staff. I have been involved in this sport for 55 years in one capacity or another and your track has the best show. If you wasn't so far away I'd try to shoot video there on Friday. The fuel cost are just too high. When I traveled with the UDLMCS I always looked forward to Ocala and your Zuber Dogs. I love hotdogs but these are to die for. I think Ken Kinney is doing a lot of what you have done and I am hearing some good reports from there. I hope to get back up there soon. Bob..

[Darren]

I beleive I

am correct in saying, Sunshine Speedway - 1/4 mile measure from inside, Auburndale Speedway - 1/4 mile measure from outside. Both the right size for good racing.