Bowman Gray Stadium

[kevin finney]

Some of you may have read Joe Van Hoose's thread a few weeks ago about the type of racing that you can still witness on Saturday nights. My wife and I visited Bowman Gray Stadium for the second time this summer last Saturday night. It was another Winston-Salem Journal $1 ladies night. General Admission for all ladies was $1. Guys were $10. The show started a few minutes early (8pm) and we were on our way home at 10:45pm. This was after 8 features and a 31 car demolition derby.

Take a look at the picture that I attached to this thread. This was the field for the Nascar Modifieds. This is a view from turn 1 and 2 looking toward the frontstretch. The grandstands continue along the backstretch into turn three. Notice the number of people in the grandstands... I estimated 15,000 people (30 sections, 26 rows per section (A-Z), and at least 20 people per row). If you ever get a chance to witness this facility in operation, you will definitely leave satisfied.

There were at least 20 cars in each class. The Sportsman and Stadium Stock classes had 30 cars.

[Boneman]

That is a beatiful sight!

It must be photoshopped because "the economy" will not allow a result like that.

[Old Sunshine Fan]

No Photo Tricks There...............

I was at that track a few years ago. What a great track and great crowd.
While in the area (Working - and got caught over the weekend) I looked for a race of any kind... found this place and when I first walked in.. I thought - "What kind of racing can they possibly have going on in this little place"... when they had some open wheeled racing like I had not seen in a long time. great close racing.. at first little to no passing, but toward the end... they started passing and it turned out to be some super racing.

If I am ever in the area again.. I am sure to look for another race there.

OSF:

p.s. Some weird hamburgers... you can't get them plain... they put cole slaw on every burger...lady said they don't sell em plain.. I sadi... LADY, when they are putting it together - STOP JUST AFTER PUTTING THE BURGER ON - She replied "THEY CAN'T DO THAT"... (What the hell was that about - so I went over and got some BBQ instead).

[georgep]

The answer is that they learned YEARS ago that LOW prices in the stands and staying with a proven series, Modified Sportsmen back then and now the Whalen Modifieds you Will get the cars and the people.
IF Florida joined the funny thing called the WHALEN MODIFIEDS then they would have a constant count of Modifieds since the NASCAR point system and the extra shows help keep the car count up.
Sorry but 12 cars for 50 laps and 9 cars for Late models will not fill the stands.
Well I am headed to a Whalen Modified race at Bristol. I think the pick up trucks are running but I still will drive any place for a good modified show, SORRY but IMCA and IMP are just not what I will pay to see.
Remember the Richie Evans 100 at NSS last year? Now you get the idea.

[andre]

IF Florida joined the funny thing called the WHALEN MODIFIEDS

Not to be picky but just to make sure everybody has it right:

The NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour (NWMT)

(previously the NASCAR Winston Modified Tour and NASCAR Featherlite Modified Series)

[kevin finney]

Something to learn from...

Having been around racing for many years, both in Florida and outside of Florida, there seems to be quite a difference in the track operation of Bowman Gray and the others I can associate with. Here are a few things that I noticed immediately.

What Bowman Gray does:

1.) The track attempts to get a local sponsor for the entire night to allow for special events like $1 ladies night (Winston-Salem Journal Newspaper Night) or show your tv cable bill and get in for 1/2 price (Time Warner Cable Night). These events are advertised each week (website, radio, newspaper).
1a.) Each class has a sponsor that is advertised on a Jumbo-tron before and during the event. The sponsor actually receives something in return!
2.) The general admission ticket is also a raffle ticket to win cold hard cash (it was $500 from the Winston-Salem Journal last Saturday).
3.) The track gets involved with a t-shirt company to sell t-shirts that support local drivers. The fans eat this up and buy them like they are collector's items. This gets the fans involved and creates some controversy in the bleachers, believe me!
4.) The races have time limits that are real. 15 minutes or 15 laps for the Stadium Stock class. After 15 minutes and 7 laps, the checkered was flying.
5.) When a race is over, a mobile podium rolls out of the pits, onto the frontstretch, and a brief 5 minute presentation to the winner is done. While this is occurring, the next feature is rolling out onto the frontstretch. As soon as the five minutes lapse, the pace car rolls the field around for two or three warm-up laps and the race begins. NO KIDDING!
6.) Pit entry is $20. Of course you have to have a NASCAR license.
7.) The facility is clean. Even the restrooms. Go figure?
8.) There are plenty of safety personnel, rescue vehicles, deputies, and caution lights that WORK (thanks to Whelen I am sure)!
9.) The show ends early enough so you can still have a normal Sunday!9

Here are a few things that I noticed the track steers clear of:

1.) They are not overcharging at the back gate.
2.) They are not worried about selling tires and fuel to make extra money off of the competitors, they are worried about filling the bleachers.
3.) Someone other than the track runs the concessions. The prices are high, but it seems that it is supporting a local benefit of some type.

In the end, the track works to find local supporting sponsors and tries to fill the bleachers (which they do really well). This is what allows for the success of Bowman Gray Stadium racing.

[AJ14]

Kevin , everything you listed , both positive and negative , should be the playbook for every track owner in Florida . I wonder how many asphalt tracks will make changes after reading or hearing about this thread ? Any body want to take a guess ?

[Frasson118]

ZERO...

Bet on it!

[georgep]

IF Florida joined the funny thing called the WHALEN MODIFIEDS

Not to be picky but just to make sure everybody has it right:

The NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour (NWMT)

(previously the NASCAR Winston Modified Tour and NASCAR Featherlite Modified Series)

10-4, The SPONSOR changes BUT the cars are still there and so are the poeple.
Oh yes, Winston Cup, Sprint Cup, Craftsmen Trucks, Camping World Series. That is called marketing if you have a product you can always find a buyer.

[The Ocala Speedway]

I've been studying this track since Joe first posted about it. Kevin, you posted some good info. We do all of those things you mentioned except maybe one or two. We don't have a jumbo-tron or get every night sponsored to give out cash, although great ideas. We do finish consistently at 10:30 and I clean the bathrooms, therefore know there clean.
I've been in contact with the staff at this race track and would like to point out some things from the racing perspective that may or may-not fly in Florida.

1. No Late Models all season(be careful what you ask for)
2. Only 18 race dates all season. I think this contributes greatly to the weekly fan attendance. It would only work in Fl if all the tracks agreed to do this and that would never happen. This is also one of the reasons the tracks up north have stronger car counts. Don't spend money on your cars six months out of the year and a lot more people could afford to race.
3. No heats. Cars draw pills for the line up each week.
4. On the big mod races (they have quite a few 100 or more lappers) you draw a pill for your starting position. Try running a big late model or owm race in Fl on asphalt or dirt without some sort of qualifying (heats or time trials) and see what happens.
5. On nights they have two 25 lap mod races the first race line up is by pill. For the second race the winner of the first draws a pill for the invert. The lowest pill in the bag is an 8 and it goes up to 16. This is with a 24 car field.
6. They only start 24 cars. If more than that show for a race the top 20 cars in points are locked in and draw a pill for position. The remaining cars then qualify during PRACTICE for the last four positions.

How many non-qualifying or non-heat race lineup Super Late Model races would you race in or bring your cars to just drawing a pill for the feature at the gate? If all the drivers in the state would go along with these GREAT METHODS it would also contribute to putting buts in the seats. BTW Kevin don't be such a stranger just because were dirt at Ocala. Mike

[Joe]

Good points, Mike. The drivers down here would never go for it. They're not conditioned to do so.

[georgep]

Mike you are correct that there is no way that you can do anything like the done up in the northern States, NC and up. The fact that there is a DOWN TIME is a big factor for the big fan and car count, no doubt at all. 12,000 at Reading in 32 deg weather because it was opening day.
BUT WHAT IF:
1. You ran a track series for 26 weeks, paid the points and crowned a champion then ran open competition for 15 weeks then RESTARTED another series.
2. You ran a SHORT series that set a field for a BIG race? DIRT does that for the Schaeffer 200. Win a spot in the field and be locked in.
3. You ran a system the rewarded drivers, owners and FANS for being a true track supporter. You go "X" times in a ROW and the next time is either free or a GOOD Discount.
These are Marketing plans that work all over when tried.
RPM will tell you that you MUST HAVE HYPE to survive and draw fans and cars.
The old days of 25 laps and thanks for coming are going away fast. People want a REASON to spend their hard earned money they want a SHOW. The drivers want a REASON to come to your track on a regular bases other than you are a nice guy.
Why did my dad and I Tow ALL OVER the east coast to race?
1. Good POINT FUNDS
2. Good PAYOUTS past 10th place (you can not win them all)
3. Extra Distance races that where based on your support of the track (someplace's top 10 in points are locked in, others the Winner from so many weeks before where locked in if the same guy won then it went to the first car not in the show)
4. BIGGEST reason was that we knew that the places we raced we would always get a fair call on the track and in tech (tech, well with the modifieds that was sort of not a problem, basically no rules in the old days)
I am towing up to NC to run my car at a very little track called Hammerdown. There TOTAL car count for some nights is 20 in 6 classes. The people come because it is the only thing to do in that area and the owner is doing the best he can. So what you have in Florida is not as bad as you think BUT all could be better.

[kevin finney]

Response to Mike Peters, Ocala Speedway

Dear Mike,
I am encouraged to read responses regarding my post about the quality entertainment that I have experienced at Bowman Gray Stadium recently. It is nice to know that a Florida track owner/promoter is interested in making their show better by trying something that may be working elsewhere.

However, there are a few things that I want to comment on that you stated.

1.) You are correct that they don't run Late Models all season long. Their premier division is the NASCAR Whelen Modifieds. These vehicles are more expensive than any Super Late Models that may show up at any event in Florida. So, if you are implying that the premier division is a small investment, I would have to say that you are incorrect. However, their Sportsman class includes straight-rail Super Late Model chassis with wet sump engines. I know this because one of our former cars is second in points in that series. These cars look like the Super Late Models we are all used to seeing. While some are older body styles, some are the latest models such as a Toyota Camry Five Star body.

2.) You are absolutely correct about a limited race date schedule and this seems to work well for tracks my NC region. My comment to you on this fact is that "followers are never leaders" and just because no one else has done it or is currently doing it doesn't mean that you shouldn't give it a try or cannot make it work. Racing in Florida year-round makes little to no sense! No one wants it... Not the fans, the racers, the wives, etc. This is especially true when you experience the rainy summer season and end up cancelling events on a weekly basis. What a way to ruin a potentially good weekend for a family.

3.) The "No heats" rule is fine. Qualifying is nice so you don't have the slowest car in the field on the front row. I have seen this happen at Bowman Gray and it causes some issues (time expiring due to wrecks). But, why not use electronic transponders and take the average speeds or the fastest lap from practice and generate the starting positions from such data. Oh right, that would require ELECTRONIC TRANSPONDERS, and they have only been out for many years... Not directed toward you personally, but in general to the entire short track racing market.

4.) Let's face it, a well run and managed racing event promotes good racing. If consequences were administered for inappropriate on-track behavior then the races would be of better quality. Bowman Gray officials do a tremendous job of promoting a good show. If there is rough driving, it is immediately dealt with. The drivers know this up front and it eliminates caution flags and damaged equipment. And, there is not a big difference in prize money won between positions. This makes a huge difference in whether the second place driver roughs up the first place car. In 2004, when Ocala was asphalt and promoted the All American Challenge Series, the payout was spread generously throughout the field. First was $1500, second $1200, and I believe sixth was still around $700. You got better racing with less equipment damage... Almost everyone leaves happy!

5.) Give the pill draw a try. It might work, but only if you spread the payout throughout the field. It will allow for more winners throughout the year. Let's face it, only the guy who wins is happy. And if 18 different people win on 18 different nights throughout the season, you have many happy people that want to race again next season! By the way, Bowman Gray doesn't pay a large purse either...

6.) A limit on the number of cars that start a feature event is fine. That would be a great problem to have in Florida! Good luck with that one.

So, I encourage you to consider what I have stated and see if it works. My original post was to inform people that there still is a chance for Florida tracks to survive. However, I believe that it will require some very big changes. What most tracks are doing doesn't work. The way I see it is this: If I don't leave the racetrack saying that I am coming back and bringing someone new with me then the track isn't doing a good job at providing entertainment. It is the entertainment business that we are talking about, and with so much to do in the environment that we live in, as a track owner/promoter I feel like you have to be very creative each week. Good luck with the rest of your season as Bowman Gray finishes their season this week. Think about that one...

I will come back to Ocala... when you scrape the dirt off of the asphalt and bring back the All American Challenge Series. That was a great series. Plus, you wouldn't have to clean the bathrooms as much if you didn't have the dirt to deal with!

Regards,
Kevin Finney

[AJ14]

Kevin , very well thought out posts . Could we interest you and your family in forming a Florida wide sanctioning body for asphalt oval track racing ?

[kevin finney]

I think that all of us would entertain that idea. However, I don't think we can run a series and also compete. Maybe one day you will see that happen! I can tell you this, we would do many things differently. The problem is, I don't think we could get the support of the track owners.