Thanks Messiah!!

[Jim Fenton]

I knew this would bring the Obamatons out of the woodwork, and gosh, so formal too.

Guess I’ve been called a lot worse though.

For the original poster - would you prefer that the government just let General Motors go out of business?

YES! ABSOLUTELY! This route was a huge mistake.

Without a doubt making GM (and Chrysler) stand on its own two feet would’ve been the better option. They would’ve never gone out of business completely, but rather they would’ve been forced to fix their problems in order to continue and succeed.

Anybody that’s ever had a successful business that begins to fail for whatever reason will tell you that either you make the necessary adjustments to remain competitive or you die on the vine. I firmly believe that if they were left twisting in the wind from their past transgressions, like you or I would be when we screw up in business, they would’ve either come out the other side lean, mean and the better for it, or they would’ve failed and gone into the history books as such, a failure.

I don’t believe for a minute they would’ve let the latter happen.

The Bush Administration made a mistake for starting it and then of course because the current White House resident had the support of most of the major unions going into the November elections he had no choice but to ante-up based on his promises.

The Unions are the primary contributor to the American Auto Industry’s decline and now BO is compounding the problem by taking over.

This is like one drunk helping another drunk get across a busy street. Not a real good recipe for success.

Anyone that believes the government can run a business better than the private sector is an idiot.

This is bad business and we’ll all suffer for it.

[AJ14]

A couple of points here Mr. Fenton . Number one , of course the government can do as good a job running a company as the private sector can . Where do you suppose the government comes from ? All of the members of government come from the private sector . Mostly lawyers i'm sorry to say , but they all come from the private sector , and even the lawyers have business experience . And from the way the banks and investment companies were run into the ground by greed and incompetence , i'm not sure i have too much faith in the private sector to be able to accomplish much of anything .
And second , i'm not against a business going under . I wish it didn't have to happen , i hate to see employees put out on the street and business owners lose everything they've worked for , and often not even their fault . But you or i failing and twisting in the wind is an entirely different thing than a company the size of GM or Chrysler doing it . I go back to my earlier post , there is way too much at stake to let certain companies fail . The car companies , for better or worse , have been so good at growing over the years that they now control far too many companies and employees in many countries . When you or i go under , its sad , but the world moves on . When GM goes under it takes employees , suppliers , contractors , cities , states , and possibly even countries down with it . With that kind of a downside , there isn't any choice but to save them . And believe me , if you look into how much GM owns around the world , and how many thousands of suppliers have GM as their sole customer , and calculate how many peoples lives would be deeply affected by a bankruptcy , its easy to see that there really wasn't any alternative here .

[Edm]

I didnt choose for socialism. Why am I gonna have to get stuck with it?

[Boneman]

The government CANNOT RUN ANYTHING in an effective or efficient way. NOTHING! Look at Amtrak. It has languished under government control for 30 years and what is the result? Broken down and worn out equipment that is 30 years out of date, and an unending legacy of government support. Amtrak is a national disgrace.

Look at the post office. Were you impressed with the clean, modern facilities the last time you visited one? How about the attentive and capable service you received? Not me: it was dusty, old, slow and the staff were total robots who had to ask the same non-sense questions to every customer, no matter how silly or how much time was wasted. It like visiting a Turkish prision, just with vending machines.

Are you impressed with the efficient operation of government housing? How about the IRS?

Are you really pleased that government has so many lawyers involved? Remember, lawyers thrive on chaos. They exist to fan flames and stir up problems, not to solve anything.

Heaven help us if the same corrupt, incompetent beaurocrats that have no private sector or real-world experience end up in charge of health care.

[flvideo]

I was Gona stay out, BUT!

I hear what you all are saying. I am not a great fan of government intervention, but in this case its the best of two evils I think. If we let the big three go under it would turn this country upside down. Its not just the automakers its all the small parts providers. Millions of people would be affected. Don't put all unions in the same pot. I agree that the auto workers union have led to a lot of their problems but! I spent 33 years working for an electric utillity and was a dues paying union member all those years. Without the union we would have probably killed or maimed many people who worked there. The company cared more about the bottom line than our saftey. I worked in close proxsimity or directly on, high voltage lines almost daily. I knew the pressures that management put on their employees to get the job done.
I was on both sides of the street there, I worked in management a lot . I went to those meetings where the lower level management were intimidated and to protect their job they were moved to get the job done quickly at all cost. I don't agree with all things the unions do but the basic principle of the union is good. If left to their whiles we would have been working with high voltage and climbing 100 Ft. poles for $10 an hour. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. Bob.......

[mocha2@dishmail.net]

Which President started this whole ball rolling in the fall of 2008?I am neither democrat or republican as there is very little difference between the two parties.Our whole system of government needs a major overhaul and it is time for revolution!The founding fathers would be very disappointed if they saw things the way they are today.

[carolwicks]

WE are a huge part of the problems !!!!

when things were going well and real estate went thru the ceiling and construction was going strong, i watched alot of people buy boats, expensive trucks, go on vacations and spend spend spend... they ran up credit cards to the max and didnt save anything for the rainy days.
credit cards are like a legal way to steal. you spend alot of money you havent even made yet and may not ever be able to pay back... if you look at all your credit cards and what the payments are, in a couple of months you could have paid cash for the new washer etc....
when we had an auto industry the workers made a fortune in pay thanks to the unions... it was a job... not any harder than roofing or road work or running heavy equipment. everyone works hard but the auto workers made twice as much money... we ran ourselves right out of work and affordable transportation..
so now we are accountable and thats not easy to handle. knowing we did this to ourselves.... but at least we have present and past presidents to blame it on!
we are not helpless. the government works for us...if we dont strongly stand up for what we want or believe in then its our own fault they get to make all the choices. we gave them that opportunity and we need to take responsibility for the consequences instead of blaming everyone else. just my opinion for whatever its worth... when you have a little extra money put it in the bank. dont spend it on wants... only on needs... save to buy things. pay off credit cards....try to put about 8 months of bills away in case you lose your job... i know some of you are scraping by and couldnt save a penny if you tried... but if we can afford racing, internet, cigaretts, cable tv, etc. we can save a little. those are not necessities but luxuries! i love racing but i would NEVER put it ahead of my responsibilities!
carolwicks aka OZ

[bubba]

So with the "Thanks Messiah" tagline, are you implying that by helping out the automakers, our govt is responsible for GM pulling its support? Or would you more logically say that GM is in a crapload of financial hardtimes and maybe it makes sense to drop truck series support? Trying to blame Obama or the govt for GM dropping nascar support is assinine. I can assure of this, without govt support you would see more than just truck series support going byebye.

Am i a big fan of the support - nope - I think it is going to be a rough ride with little payout.

Oh and Fenton, can I have Heston's gun - his hand is mighty cold these days.

[AJ14]

Rex , i go along with your assesment of AMTRAK , although in fairness , people simply quit riding trains in favor of a driving their cars . Some folks still use the train for long trips , some even take their cars along , but riders dropped off many years ago . And the trains could still be used much more than they are for freight , its just that there are relativly few train depots compared to trucking companies . So trucking won most of the shipping business . And trucking companies come pick up the shipment , most rail companies don't .
I may be in the minority , but i have three post offices near my house , i've used all of them from time to time , and they are very clean , and the employees are friendly . Never had a bad experience that i can recall . Lines are long , but they're long at Publix sometimes too .
Unions only exist to get the best for their members . Left up to the owners or CEOs , how big a salary , how many benefits , and how many safety rules would the average worker have ? And by the way , the average auto worker salary , with benefits factored in is about $27 dollars an hour , not the $40 that people often quote . When a worker who makes $10 per hour factors in benefits , he or she is making about $15 per hour depending on the anount of benefits , insurance , etc . Union workers never once told the union leaders that they didn't want more money or more benefits . So what the union got for them is what they got . And you want to talk about wildly bloated salaries , we can talk about sports stars , investment bankers , stock traders and entertainers .

[Boneman]

Amtrak still sucks because the government is incapable of fixing it. Trains across Europe and Asia are modern, fast and efficient. Our government is a terrible manager of business. So after billions and billions in taxpayer provided support, things will not improve until it is returned to the private sector.

[carolwicks]

My point...

there are millions who feel the same way you do... however, writing on a racing message board wont fix it. take the same energy and write to your representatives and reassure them they will NOT be back in their cushy jobs next election if they dont support us! send mass emails... do something that will make a difference. actually talking on here kinda gets some motivation going but we need to bring it up a notch. and just for the record... Obama cannot possibly fix the problems that were dropped in his lap in 7 months. it took years to get in this mess and it will take even more years to fix it.
carolwicks aka OZ

[flvideo]

Obama Can't fix in 7 months whats happened for years and years, but I heard a commentator say the other day that in 7 months he has spent more than most administrations in a whole term. I am not sure how true that is but he's spent a bundle. I really don't see any thing else he could do. If he lets the automakers go under there would be an avalance of repercussions all over this country. National racing would take a big hit. If we think its bad now we haven't seen anything like what could happen. Didn't I hear MI was worried about their tax base? With the big 3 gone and millions of people in MI out of work. Can you just imagine every family with 2 Fiats in there garage. The last time I looked at a Fiat they weren't too appealing. Bob....

[AJ14]

Well actually certain cars from Fiat wouldn't be too bad . Fiat owns Ferrari .

[Benny The Mule]

Carol, You keep saying WE.........you got a mouse in your pocket?

Seeing this is a government rant i'll add that i was informed today that my position is being phased out. I am the chief estimator/project manager at a construction company.

Even though we have numberous jobs and are in good shape through the end of the year the owner of the company will take over my duties.

He said he had to cut cost somewhere and i was where he started (highest salary in the company).

He said it's because of the economy.

He watches too much CNN.

I have 30 days to find a job in an industry everyone is scared to death they're gonna starve.

Didn't the prez say he was going to put money into construction?


Oh, on the topic......the banks should have FAILED and GM be assessed harder before the government jumped in.


Wasn't it some old guy years and years ago that said if we let the banks run the country we'd be doomed???????????

[Cara]

Sorry to hear about losing your job. I hope and pray that you find something soon.