My conversation with John Sarppraicone

[OldSchool+]

Perhaps a SCCA group could check into renting Desoto Speedway (or Bithlo, or similar) on a Sunday.

Seriously, it could be a learning experience all the way around.

Not so seriously, I would suggest keeping the Miatas off the figure eight course...

[openwm53]

Here's a couple ideas

If you want a certain class of cars to be able to race multiple tracks lets say at..........Desoto, Citrus, Showtime and Auburndale.

Then maybe the promoter, owner ,manager or whom ever should consider a couple things.

We do not all have plenty of money to travel. And if we do want to travel then central Florida tracks should think about what it takes the average Joe racer to pull a couple hours to your track.

One thing you need to do is uniform your rules with the other 4 or 5 tracks.

The other and the BIGGEST expense for the racer to show up is TIRES.

So lets say I just ran Showtime with my modified. Citrus posts a race next Saturday............Until just a couple weeks ago the rules were different so I had to change my car and guess what...........They run different TIRES ?? Well then maybe I will go to A-Dale ? Guess what........slightly different rules and different TIRES.

People may say well most buy new tires anyway..........Well unless I have already been traveling then I will not have a practice set of tires so I will have to practice on a different tire than I will be racing on or buy 2 sets of a different tire........Not me...cant afford it. better just stay home. Save my practice set for where I race and wait for the next show.

I just bought a set of tires yesterday...........$ 560.00

Until tracks or racers unite and demand 1 set of rules for each class and one dam tire for each class at all tracks the car counts will suffer.

Here is another opinionated idea..........Give local radio stations free tickets to give away.........Give local sports bars free tickets to give away. Give tickets to the local breakfast diners to give away or the local 7-11 type stores. Put fans in the seats and sell them a good product at a reasonable price. Make money, pay your drivers fairly, run a good organized show and don't let tech play favorites and actually have a real tech person.

[OldSchool+]

There is no doubt more to the story, but it would seem like if the tracks all got together they could cut a better deal, collectively, per tire, for each of them.

Hoosier, American Racer, Dunlop (!), whatever, if they were the same, Doug would race more.

And some tracks could use another good modified in the field.

[Weftracing96]

GP,

I will have to disagree with your premise.

The stock market trades on the strength of companies, but also emotion, yet most curiously was propped up by the Fed under BO's administration. With printed money that reduced the value of all of the money in circulation. Including yours and mine, and the guy with the race car.

Folks out of work are not counted in unemployment numbers once their unemployment benefits run out in three months or so.

When I was growing up there were all two parent households up and down the street with no debt, since there were no credit cards. And there was money to dispose of, on vacations, boats, and stock cars.

Now, the parent/kids I know are mostly single family and on some or a lot of government money just to get along.

Don't get me wrong, their self imposed loser-prison is by their own hand, but...

By and large, there is less money for people to race with, especially young people. And the cars are more expensive. It ain't rocket science.

And I still maintain that club racing, while I enjoy it, is not stock car racing.

Am hoping all the local short tracks and stock car racing survives.

Economics is a large part, as well as the shift in interests, as well as what the manufacturers are putting out from the factory these days. A 75' Monte, 78" Camaro, etc. Those were meant to be saved from the scrapyard and converted to backbone class racecars. a 98" Grand Prix, not so much.

As for FL, just like I predicted would happen, too many tracks, not enough cars. It's simple economics. The only track really doing consistently well through the field is Showtime. And even that isn't close to the good old days. I knew Desoto was in trouble when 4-17 came online. It siphoned off half of the bomber, class, and the split from the series took the other half that were from Auburndale. Now, they have to take scraps and put on a big Bomber race on the night those tracks don't run Bombers.

Also throw in the people who left that won't come back. Using myself as an example, I'd spent my last dime to race when I was in my mid 20's. Then I got to FL. Wanted to race my mini stock at Desoto, but they only pulled 5 cars. That and John had them on super soft Hoosier slicks. I could run all year on my tires up north,so I lost interest and sold it. Fast forward to 2017', now I have the ability to run a Super if I so desired. But priorities have changed. I'm 38 and thinking more about retirement than ever racing again. How many guys like that are out there? It's hard to get em back once their gone, and they aren't coming into the sport and getting started in near adequate numbers.

Honestly, there is no place I'd rather go than a short track with full fields of 20 plus in every class. I'd pay $50 to watch it I miss it so bad. Nothing in the world compares. But sadly, and this will sound negative, but the reality is, racing is dying, it will not come back, and we are in the midst 3rd longest , almost the 2nd longest economic growth cycle in the history of the republic which began in 2009", and these are the car counts we have. Recession is inevitable, and then what will car counts look like?

[OldSchool+]

Weft,

Congratulations on being in as good a financial shape as you are at 38.

I was a long ways from that at 38 and even 48. You are, shall we say, emotionally retired.

But you have been in the pits, and you know that a) people are passionate about racing almost to the point of being irrational, and b) some--perhaps even most-- of them are financially struggling.

And some still have the fire, and maybe even a car, but can no longer afford it. In fact, recall your own exit story: "I could run all year on my tires up north [but I could not afford Desoto's weekly super-soft tire purchase], so I lost interest and sold it."

I will agree with you regarding an inevitable recession following a flaccid "growth cycle" that was largely propped up by guvment credit-card-like spending.

All the more reason to get an affordable headliner class in the meantime.

Racing ain't dead yet. And, to draw an extreme--if it were free, I would be doing it. The closer it is to being free, the more folks will be doing it.

Now is the time for thought regarding 2018 rules. Perhaps some will be starting with a new sheet of paper, but thinking specifically about how to fill the field with decades of existing race cars.

Instead of lamenting the "good old days", think solid incremental growth. Through inexpensive cars, inexpensive motors, and as Weft mentions, inexpensive weekly costs.

[Weftracing96]

Weft,

Congratulations on being in as good a financial shape as you are at 38.

I was a long ways from that at 38 and even 48. You are, shall we say, emotionally retired.

But you have been in the pits, and you know that a) people are passionate about racing almost to the point of being irrational, and b) some--perhaps even most-- of them are financially struggling.

And some still have the fire, and maybe even a car, but can no longer afford it. In fact, recall your own exit story: "I could run all year on my tires up north [but I could not afford Desoto's weekly super-soft tire purchase], so I lost interest and sold it."

I will agree with you regarding an inevitable recession following a flaccid "growth cycle" that was largely propped up by guvment credit-card-like spending.

All the more reason to get an affordable headliner class in the meantime.

Racing ain't dead yet. And, to draw an extreme--if it were free, I would be doing it. The closer it is to being free, the more folks will be doing it.

Now is the time for thought regarding 2018 rules. Perhaps some will be starting with a new sheet of paper, but thinking specifically about how to fill the field with decades of existing race cars.

Instead of lamenting the "good old days", think solid incremental growth. Through inexpensive cars, inexpensive motors, and as Weft mentions, inexpensive weekly costs.

Well, finances are good bc I learned not to blow every cent I had. I have a good job, but racing was a money drain. I'm by no means a wealthy man, it's going to take all that money to retire. To your point, yes, I am sure a lot of racers are financially struggling. To say it's in your blood and you love the sport though is no excuse if you have no retirement or no ability to help your kids through college. That's just irresponsible no matter how anyone could try and rationalize it.

No, racing isn't dead. But it's dying. It's been dying. It's not really healthy anywhere, even old northern strongholds that were historically very healthy are struggling. We've talked for years about rules packages to encourage people to dust off the old cars that have been sitting for years. But it doesn't ever happen. They tried to combine the PS and Bomber class at Desoto, and nobody would cooperate. Nobody is willing to bend or make changes. And even if they were, I have a friend of mine that raced Desoto in the 90's and early 2000's, and he still has his old street stock. But he got chased out by economic reality,and much like myself, started making different choices. To rebuild his car would take a lot of time and effort to do it right, and he has since become a successful business owner with an eye toward the future. He'd love to race, but it's just not really worth it anymore. I think a lot of those guys moved on and aren't coming back. I love racing and decided officiating would be a way to stay in the sport, but local racing just has too many favorites, inconsistency, and honestly too much incompetence. So I left that too. Now, most of my racing involves watching old races on youtube and remembering what the sport once was, but as much as I want it to be, will never be again.

[Groundpounder]

No, racing isn't dead. But it's dying. It's been dying......

Now, most of my racing involves watching old races on youtube and remembering what the sport once was, but as much as I want it to be, will never be again.

Just changing, not dying really...
everyone has fond memories of 5 cent candy bars and Ma & Pa parts stores and grocery stores...
you can stay stuck in the past or roll with the changes...one's choice, it's up to you but...
No sympathy for the low 1990's level purse paying promotors...it's 2017.
If the purses had doubled like they should have and everything else in life has ...and they were say... $2500-$3000 to win for sprints or SLM's on a regular basis, given some rebuild time because they have blown it so long...enthusiasm. cars, friends/fans would grow...it just takes somebody(who for whatever reasons want to) to spend the capital and not cheapskate it...
Otherwise...it's SCCA and Drag racing...pay to play...
Saw some really high dollar fast, cool cars at Sebring this weekend racing for a $5 trophy...what dummies, LOL!

[OldSchool+]

"If the purses had doubled like they should have and everything else in life has."--Groundpounder

"Should"?

In capitalism things are self leveling, fair or not. That is, phones used to be $5, now they are a fortune. And they are "worth" it and "should" they have gone up that much? Absolutely, because people are willing to pay it.

On the other hand, my pay has not gone up in the last decade. "Should" it have? Actually, no. My Team did not earn significantly more for the company hawking a legacy product, and that is what they chose to pay. My choice to stay and accept it.

Is the promoter making 2x what he was? "Should" he be? "Should" the fans be willing to pay double for less car count and action?

I would suggest it is all beside the point. Everything is right where it "should" be, given the choices the rulesmakers have made, racer influenced or not.

Including low purses and low car count.

"Should" new rules making racing less expensive be put in place, hopefully therefore increasing car count, hopefully therefore increasing gate attendance, hopefully therefore increasing gross ticket Sales revenues, hopefully therefore increasing Promoter profits, hopefully (and finally) therefore increasing Purses?

Now there's a legitimate question.

[OldSchool+]

Weft, try chocolate, or perhaps beer.

What's retirement without racing?

Hope your "take" on the deal mellows with time.

Maybe a new track for a while. That has done it for me along the way.

[Weftracing96]

[QUOTE=OldSchool+;174969]Weft, try chocolate, or perhaps beer.

Enjoy both

What's retirement without racing?

I like to travel. And I have other hobbies.

Hope your "take" on the deal mellows with time.

I hope I'm, wrong, I'd have no issue getting sucked back in if things were to improve.

Maybe a new track for a while. That has done it for me along the way.

No local track that really appeals to me. I miss 20 plus cars in every class. Never really been one to settle. If I was bored on the flagstand during certain low car count classes, how bad was it to endure for the fans?

[OldSchool+]

AJ Has Weft The Building

I would suggest there are other factors involved than racing per se that have led to your current opinions.

Maybe it is time for another hobby, boating perhaps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2xDZnLqD5k

Maybe time for introspection, possibly even spiritual growth. Once I got that right, corporate politics seem silly, it is all about what I can do for others.

Meanwhile, in the current discussion, it is all about what I can do for the sport I love--Short Track Racing.

[Weftracing96]

I would suggest there are other factors involved than racing per se that have led to your current opinions.

I would love you to expand on that statement and hear your theories.

[OldSchool+]

The "theories" are beside the point. And although based on the racing grapevine, they would be just that and none of my business. In life, if the shoe fits, one wears it regardless of appearances or even denial.

The spiritual growth and subsequent outlook on life is the point. And that is not something that one can get to through discussion or debate. Ultimately, how each of us looks at racing and in fact life is a very subjective deal--and can be changed for the positive, or negative--regardless of "facts".

Meanwhile, have my own shoe stuck on my foot that I am dealing with.

ps--Maybe Beeflo needs a flagman...?

[x90 John Sarppraicone]

Wow over 2000 hits in one week ,they are listening real close when I make comments , I would really like to have a lunch meeting with everyone with all the hits on here that are all concerned about Florida Racing I will even get Don Nerone as a guest and Jerry Beniner any takers , Don we could sell tickets to this event or we could do it at a track to , see ya at the races.

[zerofor]

Count me in John though I have no real skin to put in any game anymore. I still have questions we didn't get to everything in our conversation.