Great idea NASCAR

[Renegade Racing Fuels]

"And we all know how hard [Brian France has] tried to alienate the old school race fans."--Renegade

How exactly do we know that?

I would assume that he thought the old school fans would either like the new changes or tolerate them.

Perhaps he was partially wrong, but I would doubt that would be his intent, since our money counts the same as new money.

I'm not sure Brian ever thought it out far enough to assume the long time fans would like his changes. And i think we can safely say he was absolutely partially wrong. Maybe even completely wrong.
I was having a conversation with a long time NASCAR fan at the track during the truck race, and he mentioned that he stated going to the speedway back in the 1970s. I asked him what he thought of all the changes and his response was that the ONLY thing he could think of that hadn't changed were the old restrooms located the infield. I had to admit that he right. Was it necessary to change the sport so completely that the only thing remaining were the infield restrooms? No. But Brian's vision for the direction of ISC, NASCAR, and their tracks seems to require out with the old traditional ( anything his Grandfather and Father touched ), and in with the new young and trendy.
I don't believe he ever gave a thought to long time fans, he assumed he wouldn't need them with all the youngsters buying tickets and watching on TV. But he's got billions and i don't. So who am i to say.

[OldSchool+]

"I'm not sure Brian ever thought it out far enough to assume the long time fans would like his changes. And i think we can safely say he was absolutely partially wrong. Maybe even completely wrong."--Renegade

Partially wrong--no doubt, as (presumably) you no longer watch Cup.

Completely wrong--can't be, since I (and presumably a few others) still do.

"So who am i to say?"--RRF

Your opinion is certainly as valid as any!

[modracer22]

So if you have billions you must be smarter? Brain didn't earn them his grand father did. NASCAR has been going down hill since he took over.

[OldSchool+]

Just to revisit,

Big 'ol Bill banned Curtis Turner and effectively Smokey Yunick, and let Richard Petty win 10 races in a row in '67. Do we think that was good racing?

Junior Bill largely presided over the good-short-tracks-to-lousy-long-tracks conversion of the sport, and was also there when they invented restrictor plates instead of a better solution. Did all that improve the racing?

So, as far as I am concerned, as Hank Jr. sez, "It's a Fam-lee tradition".

That said, they all have managed to successfully promote the biggest form of Stock Car Racing for decades, so kudos to them for that.

[zerofor]

I will say this in Bill Jr's defense.Buddy Baker had turned unofficial timed laps at Talladega in 1969 approaching 220 mph in a winged Daytona.They HAD to slow them down. The narrower wheel and tire combinations NASCAR ran in those days just weren't made for that underneath those heavy bodies.Everything else Billy Jr pretty much got wrong.

[Renegade Racing Fuels]

Just to revisit,

Big 'ol Bill banned Curtis Turner and effectively Smokey Yunick, and let Richard Petty win 10 races in a row in '67. Do we think that was good racing?

Junior Bill largely presided over the good-short-tracks-to-lousy-long-tracks conversion of the sport, and was also there when they invented restrictor plates instead of a better solution. Did all that improve the racing?

So, as far as I am concerned, as Hank Jr. sez, "It's a Fam-lee tradition".

That said, they all have managed to successfully promote the biggest form of Stock Car Racing for decades, so kudos to them for that.

Apparently the fans in 1967 weren't too worried about it, they packed every race and the crowd increased every year for the next 30 years.
And while restrictor plates may or may not have been the best answer to cars flying into the stands, the crowds still kept getting larger. So much so that Daytona saw the need to completely renovate the backstretch grandstands, adding 10s of thousands of new seats and even added suites.
Then, around 2000, Bill Jr. turned over what was one of the most popular sports in America to his son and daughter. Within 15 years, the backstretch stands were not only downsized ( including the late, much lamented beer garden ), they were eventually removed completely. Along with thousands of frontstretch seats.
The loss in fans and tv viewers could be attributed to a number of different things, or a number of things all combined. But the timeline sure looks like the new direction for NASCAR was the wrong direction. Much more emphasis on the corporate and fan experience ( gimmicks ) instead of good racing with a rules package that the racers and fans could understand. And i would think that the giant increase in ticket prices was probably a way to pay for the gimmicks that the fans really never asked for.

[OldSchool+]

On a positive note, the view from the Daytona backstretch stands s-u-u-u-cked.

Now, they have escalators and prime rib sammiches and whatnot on a football-field wide slab of concrete on two elevated levels of the frontstretch stands, along with considerable additional seating.

A net improvement, I would say.

Regarding '67 fan levels:

Again, several factors in play. The cars were so much cooler and faster than '59. How much cooler are today's cars than those of '09?

And the entire population of 1967, including the wives, were more hands on and independent types than the general demographic of today (imo).

Regardless, it still all makes my point.

In 1967 a single car was stinking up the show with a France at the helm.

In 2017, according to some, the show is stinking up the show with a France at the helm.

The fact that back then the peoples came and now, not so much, is not due to the (unfortunate) actions of the Frances as much as it is other factors.

Some, perhaps. But the percentages are impossible to calculate, as is the net plus or minus for any given decision.

[OldSchool+]

Deeper and Higher

Formula 1:
"Formula 1's television viewership in Britain fell to a 12-year low last season, with audience figures plummeting by 5.1 million viewers."
"Formula 1 lost one-third of its global audience between 2008 and 2016..."--Motorsport.com

Indycar:
"The [Indycar] series trumpets television ratings that have improved 35 percent in the past two years [and very good for them], but they conveniently omit that even those numbers are about 70 percent lower than they were at their peak in the first half of the 1990s. Averaging just under 1 million viewers per race, IndyCar's television audience is about one-fifth the size of the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series."--ESPN

How about local track attendance (overall)? Does it look to be up from the '70s & 80s...?

Finally, also from Motorsport.com: "In the United States, since the turn of the millennium [ie, the year 2000], TV viewing figures [for F1] have dropped by 40 per cent among the under-25 demographic, an age group that traditionally made up a significant proportion of sports viewers."

Am guessing Brian didn't do all that by hisself.

[Renegade Racing Fuels]

F1 lost approx. 75% of it's audience due to Bernie Ecclestone switching all televised races over to pay tv. Not a popular move with the fans in and out of the US. Similar to the move NASCAR made. Making it harder for fans to watch races hasn't proven to be a very good marketing tool for F1 or NASCAR.

Indy Car never recovered from the split. No surprise their numbers are down. And to make it worse, televised races were moved to a channel that no one ever heard of. Now that you can sometimes catch the races on normal channels, the viewership is up. That accounts for the increased numbers over the last couple of years.

I can't speak for all attendance at local tracks, i know some are far off of the tickets sold in the 70s. But then some like Citrus and Showtime are drawing good crowds. And 4-17 Speedway seems to growing all the time. Some are showing big growth.

Motorsport.com is absolutely right, tv viewing numbers are certainly off since 2000. The above pretty much tells the story of why. Along with a product ( in the case of NASCAR ) that fewer and fewer fans are interested in. And with the death/retirements of some of the sports biggest heros, big increases in ticket prices, constant meddling with the rules and the racing, Car of Tomorrow, NASCAR scheduling Saturday night races, and lot's more choices for entertainment.
Citrus County and other tracks have shown that racers and fans are still out there. Maybe not as many as in the good old days, but they're out there.
10s of thousands of fans still buy tickets for NASCAR, and millions watch on tv. Not anywhere close to the numbers of the good old days, but they still draw crowds.

[OldSchool+]

Actually am fairly impressed with your theoretical reasons for the decline.

Each are popular in each discipline from similarly minded fans.

Blame the sanctioning body.

Curious though, they all are off from the "good old days".

Or could it be simply that motorsports are simply passe (that is, out of date) among all but the most hardcore fans these days?

Am cool with all of it regardless. I love short tracks, tolerate and am amused by NASCAR, and can take or leave the other stuff.

Life is good.