Great idea NASCAR

[zerofor]

There was a time dual point distributors and big block motors were a favored way to make a race car go fast.Carburetor's and side glass in NASCAR are now only a memory. Everything evolves whether we like it or not.Way back in the late 1980s the ASA experimented with V6 powerplant's before dropping that program. The big complaints then being the technology and cost were just too much.That was thirty years ago.The technology has came a long way.They will somewhere incorporate the V6 motors once again whenever they downsize the bodies once again. The really good effect of NASCAR continuously changing things while they also keep changing ticket prices(by raising them optimistic them),is I think its bringing people back to the local tracks who can't continue to afford NASCAR ticket prices and want to see racing that is less influenced by some New York City consulting firms version of what a race should be.As far as the tracks thinking of holding concerts,football games etc to stay afloat,it's called SURVIVAL and its something local track owners should have thought about long ago.Maybe there would be more of them left.

[OldSchool+]

"They will somewhere incorporate the V6 motors once again whenever they downsize the bodies once again."--04

No offense, but am thinking that is speculation.

They need cars of a certain size to maintain stability. The cars have essentially been the same size since 1981.

Heck, they are currently racing inflated-balloon Toyotas now. I would suggest that the street market has long since gotten smaller, so NASCAR has, at least thus far, bucked that deal.

Further, I believe that the cars in general, ironically including their sound, are part of the NASCAR "brand".

[Renegade Racing Fuels]

I've always thought that a well run, well financed ARCA actually could give the current NASCAR a run for their money. They would likely attract a lot of the older fans who used to enjoy the races on all sizes of ovals as well as several dirt track venues. Just have to change the cars from NASCAR Lite over to a more distinct look and rules package. It would take a while for the fans to embrace it, but i think it might catch on. Maybe Bruton/Marcus Smith could buy ARCA and give NASCAR a rivalry.

[zerofor]

That could be OS but there was also a time they felt a big heavy stock car didn't need anything but a good set of tires to keep it glued to even the high banks of Daytona. Then they took the side glass out of them and you got instant airplanes.Hence roof flaps.Of how many different car models in production today do we have v8 power as standard equipment? About 4 if I count right.It will come someday.Hopefully after I'm gone but you never know
The biggest issue there is the enormous cost to the teams who have so much invested in their engines and engine shops.But NASCAR continues to move in ways that make long time race fans scratch their heads so they are probably already thinking of an all hybrid series.

[zerofor]

A second series would work it has before. In those days it was called USAC.And they had all the star power they needed to put butts in seats.

[OldSchool+]

ARCA is old Cup cars. (Almost) nobody cares.

And I remember USAC, it was cool, but it was the ARCA of the day.

It would take the money to throw a better show than NASCAR out of the gate. It would probably lose money for the first 5 years (if not forever).

So, back at the reality farm, IMO, NASCAR has to get weaker before anyone else can knock them off the top of the heap, and in the meantime...we gots what we gots, the only choice is to watch, or not watch.

I slept through the entire Atlanta race from about lap 20 on. Found out Keselowski won from the wife.

[zerofor]

I have to disagree with your assessment of USAC OS.With names like Foyt,Andreotti,Unser,Johncock,Sneva,Donohue etc in those fields they were much more than the ARCA of that day and even in that same time period ARCA was alive and well.USAC had every bit the following NASCAR had in those days.That was why Big Bill wanted so badly to get rid of USACs stock car division. USAC had much more of a national following in those days of than ARCA ever had or will.Lol it takes you to lap twenty? If I didn't have a DVR I would never know who won a cup race.

[OldSchool+]

ZeroFour,

Thanks, for sharing the names. Hurtubise, too.

Now that I think about it, you are correct. In their heyday.

Toward the end, not so much.

[zerofor]

I guess that was a magical time in racing.If you lived down south you could see Petty,Baker,Farmer,Yarborough, Allison etc every week.If you lived up north you saw Hurtibese,Bettenhousen,Parsons,Glotzbach,Bowsher,H artman and the likes.Sometimes at a place like Daytona and eventually Pocono the two intertwined. I don't know if it will ever get back to that level but there is room for another series to make more of a splash than ARCA does.For if nothing else than the fact ARCA works in conjunction with NASCAR, they aren't trying to compete with them.

[Pun33]

change is part of life, correct
but in business change can bankrupt you or help you excel

like was said, NASCAR is no long run buy past racers, its the shirt and tie people..those aren't the people that made the sport what is was.

I can prove that the changes are not working

Daytona cut 45,000 seats and still cannot sell out the 500
Atlanta cut 17,000 and had empty seats
Charlotte cut 41,000
Dover cut 17,500

all the tracks are cutting out seat and still cannot fill them

these are tracks people would wait for someone to die so they can get their ticket

the end started when Earnhardt and big bill France died and then came that silly car with the damn wing

[OldSchool+]

Prove...?

Actually, the seat count loss is correlated with Brian and his changes but I would suggest cannot be proven to be causative.

"What the hell does that mean?", you may ask.

It means that there are other factors, maybe many, that may have also contributed.

Like:

>Racing was a fad for a while. Every stick and ball schmo in the world wanted to be a race fan, as did their girlfriends. It was happening, it was "in". Now racing is back to being a sport of neanderthals, as per the opinion of the masses.

>The tracks slowly got larger and smoother. And more boring.

>Ticket prices continued to rise.

>Old timers are dropping off the far end of the "fan" scale.

>Newbies have become less and less car oriented, period.

You perhaps are aware of the "scientific method" of research. Basically, it states that if you only change one variable, you can assume different results are due to that change. Change more than one, like stagger and a spring, who knows?

Finally, to further illustrate the point, how many women that are "expecting"(!), drank a coke in the last nine months?

Is the coke "responsible" for the pregnancy? If they switched from coke to sprite, is the sprite responsible? Clearly, the soda pop is correlated (that is, happened at the same time, but maybe coincidentally), but not causative (we all know what actually causes one to be expecting).

In conclusion, there is no way to tell if the numbers would not be far worse off if NASCAR had not made the changes.

Am not saying that is fact, am saying there is no way to tell.

[Boneman]

Know what I find mind-boggling? The idea (and persistent internet meme) that "racing died with Earnhardt". Really? Do you really mean that there have been no significant racers involved in the last 16 years? No worthwhile events? Sure, we were all DE fans, but the sport is much bigger than a single, iconic driver.

[OldSchool+]

Dale Earnhardt Sr. had great car control. He also was a master of the art of "rough" driving.

That said, I cannot be included in the "fan" group, and his passing had no effect whatsoever in my perspective on Cup racing.

Which supports your overall point.

[Renegade Racing Fuels]

It's going to be difficult to prove that the death of Earnhardt did or didn't have a big effect on race attendance and tv viewers. We've all seen interviews and read stories from fans who just simply never watched another NASCAR race because their hero Earnhardt was gone. So it certainly had an effect, a big effect in my view.
But that also took place just as Brian France was taking over the sport. And we all know how hard he's tried to alienate the old school race fans. So i don't know how you could really say how much of an effect each of those things had. I do know that NASCAR and the talking heads insist that the continued downturn in tv ratings and race attendance recently is only because Dale Jr. wasn't racing and Jeff Gordon retired. Could the absence of those 2 drivers really affect the popularity of the sport? NASCAR sure seems to thinks so.

[OldSchool+]

"And we all know how hard [Brian France has] tried to alienate the old school race fans."--Renegade

How exactly do we know that?

I would assume that he thought the old school fans would either like the new changes or tolerate them.

Perhaps he was partially wrong, but I would doubt that would be his intent, since our money counts the same as new money.