NASCAR Ordered Fans To Remove Their Confederate Flags at Daytona.

[kendo]

As i said above, not everyone that flys that flag is a racist, only some of them.

Your post states "well...some of them aren't",,,You may want to go back and edit it again

[exnyer]

Actually, the gun laws in Chicago are pretty weak compared to other large cities. Chicago has had major problems with gun violence for a long time.
But not a confederate flag in sight during any of the Chicago killings as far as i know. It was featured front and center in the church shootings by the killer himself, and used as an excuse for the killings. So it looks as though random, mindless killings happen for more than one or two reasons. Let's do all we can to stop as many of the reasons as possible.

So, under Matt's logic the confederate flag was featured by the kid who did the church shootings, he also had a gold's gym shirt on in one photo. How come no one is boycotting them?

Instead of causing a mess with the flag and further dividing the country how come no one is too concerned about how he got the gun to do the shooting with? He had a pending felony drug charge, so he could have not bought it himself? Did his dad give it to him after he purchased it?

People need to deal with the piece that did the killing not the flag he was holding, suppose it was an American Flag. What then?

Also, Chicago has some pretty strict gun laws, the problem is the neighboring states has less stringent gun laws and people just go out of state to purchase the guns.

And Jim, I am glad to see that there are people like you that will not back down and give up their rights just to make the PC crowd happy. I hope they were pissed when they saw the confederate flags flying high. Let them go home afterwards and think happy thoughts about unicorns and rainbows!

[OldSchool+]

Look, it is all emotionally-charged-we-got-an-excuse rhetoric.

The real goal is to chisel away at our First Amendment Rights (not the second or third...)--those pertaining to Free Speech.

Why was that amendment written? By default it assumes others will not like what you say or how you express yourself, and theoretically ensures your right to do so, particularly in dissent.

Two thoughts:

> In 1987 a photograph was a winner in the "Awards in the Visual Arts" competition at the Southeastern Center for Contemporary Arts, which is partially sponsored by the National Endowment for the Arts, a US Government Agency. The photograph? "Immersion (Piss Christ)" --a picture of a crucifix in a container of the photographer's urine (note--I did not say artist).

Is this offensive? To most in the country (70+%) that "identify" as Christians, certainly. But it was defended as "free speech" and we tolerated it because of the need for all of us to be able to express our opinions. There were no arbitrary limits subsequently placed on what is allowable (or not) as "art".

>>If you haven't read any of George Orwell's "fiction", it might be a good time to consider it. "1984" and "Animal Farm" are more than interesting. Written in the mid '40s, it is amazing how much rings true today.

[Matt Albee]

Matt, it is VERY rare that I agree with anything you have to say, so include this as one I also don't agree with or even like. The flag in mention was never considered racist until the KKK used it in their ceremonies and cross burnings. Blacks and whites fought under that flag for the South for several reasons, and one reason was not slavery. The Northerners owned and traded slaves as my ancestors did in that time. The war was for independence from the North telling us what to do to suit them. Race relations have gone to hell in the 6 years this bozo has been in office. MLK is rolling in his grave right now. This country was ready for a black president, we just got the wrong one.
Nuff said......
-JIM-

That's an entertaining re-write of American history Jim. Nuff said.....

[Matt Albee]

So, under Matt's logic the confederate flag was featured by the kid who did the church shootings, he also had a gold's gym shirt on in one photo. How come no one is boycotting them?

Instead of causing a mess with the flag and further dividing the country how come no one is too concerned about how he got the gun to do the shooting with? He had a pending felony drug charge, so he could have not bought it himself? Did his dad give it to him after he purchased it?

People need to deal with the piece that did the killing not the flag he was holding, suppose it was an American Flag. What then?

Also, Chicago has some pretty strict gun laws, the problem is the neighboring states has less stringent gun laws and people just go out of state to purchase the guns.

And Jim, I am glad to see that there are people like you that will not back down and give up their rights just to make the PC crowd happy. I hope they were pissed when they saw the confederate flags flying high. Let them go home afterwards and think happy thoughts about unicorns and rainbows!

Golds Gym is next on the boycott list.

Guns do need to be dealt with. This might be the push that's needed for some reforms.

What if he was holding an NRA flag? He wasn't holding an American Flag, so we'll never know.

I'm not sure what ol Jim was standing up to exactly. No where did Daytona say you couldn't bring that flag to the track. No where did Daytona say they were banning that flag. What they did say was they would happily trade a nascar flag for a confederate flag if any fan wanted to. There was Jim doing interviews for a problem that didn't even exist.

If Jim wants to fight nascar, he should contact nascar, not make tough sounding videos that very few are going to ever see. I'm actually on Jim's side about nascar ordering people to get rid of their flags. Or at least i would be if that had happened.

[Darren]

If the Confederate Flag is offensive then the song The Battle Hymn Of The Republic is also just as offensive. It was written in 1861 and was the battle song for the union. If you want to say that the Confederate Flag caused hate and for confederates to kill someone the song did the same for the union troops. It made them think that they were doing the right thing just as the southerns. Today this song is sang in churches, black and white and on national holidays, not thinking that it was used as a tool to make people think they had a right to kill someone or hate them.

[OldSchool+]

"The war was for independence from the North telling us what to do to suit them."--Diamond Jim

Funny thing about "history"--it is literally written by the powers that be later, and therefore is, shall we say, "flexible" to suit their needs.

At the end of the line, though, there is a truly objective truth, and we all will have to face it--and what "we" want to believe is really neither here nor there.

In this case, and in my opinion, Jim is accurately retelling the story.

By the way, Ocalasp is quite the Patriot. And it was the Stars and Stripes that he watched over. Thank you for defending our country, sir.

http://www.ocala.com/article/2011083...9991?p=1&tc=pg

[ocalasp76]

Well DUH Matt...

I'm not sure what ol Jim was standing up to exactly. No where did Daytona say you couldn't bring that flag to the track. No where did Daytona say they were banning that flag. What they did say was they would happily trade a nascar flag for a confederate flag if any fan wanted to. There was Jim doing interviews for a problem that didn't even exist.

If Jim wants to fight nascar, he should contact nascar, not make tough sounding videos that very few are going to ever see. I'm actually on Jim's side about nascar ordering people to get rid of their flags. Or at least i would be if that had happened.

Well wrong again. NASCAR was discouraging the display of the flag and wanted to exchange it for a free American flag, not a nascar flag. No takers on this as per the last report. Tough sounding video? Sorry you were scared and ran under the covers for that then. The shooter of 9 also showed a pic of him burning the American flag and holding a gun. His intent was to create a race war, and failed at that too, but has created this new problem with a southern heritage flag. Here in Marion county, the county commission voted yesterday to return the Confederate Flag to the Government complex here.
-JIM-

[OldSchool+]

And Now, Back to the Racing Action!

Aight, am thinking the horse has been confirmed to be good and daid, and probably all parties feel about the same as they did before the discussion...

Jim, you bringing that modified to New Smyrna this weekend? Looks like they are having a 50 lap modified event, maybe more cars to race with.

[Groundpounder]

The wonderful song "Dixie" will be next.

Remember the Disney film "Song of the South"?

[ocalasp76]

Jim, you bringing that modified to New Smyrna this weekend? Looks like they are having a 50 lap modified event, maybe more cars to race with.

Not sure what I'm doing this weekend yet, but may go back to Bronson for a test in their MOD race. Since canceling the e mod class I don't have a big motor to run and have fun there. It was a fun class... miss it.
-JIM-

[Matt Albee]

Well wrong again. NASCAR was discouraging the display of the flag and wanted to exchange it for a free American flag, not a nascar flag. No takers on this as per the last report. Tough sounding video? Sorry you were scared and ran under the covers for that then. The shooter of 9 also showed a pic of him burning the American flag and holding a gun. His intent was to create a race war, and failed at that too, but has created this new problem with a southern heritage flag. Here in Marion county, the county commission voted yesterday to return the Confederate Flag to the Government complex here.
-JIM-

See there Jim, we are in complete agreement. nascar NEVER told you you couldn't display your flag, they were just trying to " discourage " you.
Yes, we're all aware of what the shooter did and said. Go easy on me, that " pry the confederate flag from my cold dead hands " video was pretty intense.
It's Marion County, Nuff said.