Matt Albee

[OldSchool+]

"...don't know what the seating capacity is at Showtime, but as i recall it isn't a lot."--Ma
It is significant for a short track. The stands cover 2/3 of the track, and there is truck parking/beer drinking on the remaining backstretch.

" And [Showtime Speedway's success is] probably in spite of Yoho..."--Ma
It's all Yoho, sir. They were parallel parking prius' or something there before Yoho.

"The Tampa/St. Pete area just seems to love oval racing." --Ma
Point taken. Dunno what to do about that re: Beethlo.

"But Yoho is ripping off the racers to pay for his show."--Ma
Sez you, not the racers. I would suggest no more than any other choice, from McDonalds to paying for a date.

[Phil Jacques]

"We got a bunch of them to change tires, did we not?"--PJ

Good point, sir!

However, whether they sell tire "A" or "B" their investment/return is the same.

Further, I would suggest we did not "get them" to do anything, they saw a benefit to them and moved forward.

It would be very nice if the tracks with lower car counts got together and came up with a few inexpensive classes with uniform rules.

We don't need more classes, we need fewer. The fields are spread too thin right now. The liberal "make everybody happy" mentality is what is hurting the most right now. If we could get an average of 15 cars per division at every track, the crowds would pick up instantly. I PROMISE! That's where you gotta start right now. Find all the "similar" divisions and align them. Give them one uniform set of rules across the whole state at all tracks and one uniform name across all tracks. That way two things happen, you take all those cars spread out over multiple 5 and 6 car divisions and turn them into 15-20 car single division, and with a uniform name, people will know exactly what is what wherever they go. Right now, I look at schedules and I see 6 different names at 6 different tracks for 1 division of car... That shit is confusing as hell!

[OldSchool+]

"We don't need more classes, we need fewer."--PJ

Agreed, and that is what I meant.

>Late Model
>Modified
>V8 Hobby stock
>4 cyl street stock

[scottgarrity07]

"We don't need more classes, we need fewer."--PJ

Agreed, and that is what I meant.

>Late Model
>Modified
>V8 Hobby stock
>4 cyl street stock

What, no Sportsman? SACRILEGE!

[scottgarrity07]

The way "we got them to change tires" was a calculated effort for sure. We presented a plausible argument backed up by the affected racer's point of view. New Smyrna thought it made sense and took the lead by implementing testing despite the regional Hoosier rep not being cooperative. By coming up with an alternative and being a customer that demanded what it wanted NSS painted the Hoosier rep into a corner and we all got what we were looking for. Net result? The weekly Sportsman field at NSS has better than doubled.

I admire Phil's passion but the lesson to be learned here is that for ideas to be considered you have to respectfully make an intelligent argument for change that is beneficial to the people in charge AND step up and put your money where your mouth is. Trying to shame them into doing something or offering up advice as a faceless, fake screen name that prefers anonymity and that will not contact anyone nor divulge their identity at any cost (insert name here) isn't going to get you the time of day. Now if you can present a win-win-win outcome for your idea AND you have a skin in the game, you are way more likely to be heard.

[Phil Jacques]

Me personally, I call them the following

Pro Stock (combination of PLM and SLM)
Modifieds (any open wheel modified type imca car)
Sportsman (desoto street stocks, limited late model and sportsman)
Street Stock (any V8 style pure, strickly, street, or bomber type car)
Mini Stock (any 4cyl car no matter age 14+)

PLM and SLM CAN run together I'm not going to debate it because I have gone through the rules thoroughly and they are so similar to our GSPSS tour and Seekonk Pro Stock rules it's not even funny. Each side has to do a little give and take but in the end it's better for everybody.

Modifieds are just their own thing. Personally, I would like to see a limit put on the big OWM engines to keep them at or around 600hp which would allow a 604 cam change engine to compete with them as an affordable option (much like PLM vs SLM)

Sportsman is a no brainer, easily the best and most supported division right now at many tracks from the looks of results pages and absolutely the most affordable of the top tier divisions for anyone.

Street Stocks as Groundpounder says K.I.S.S!!! Stock parts, simple rules, no brainer. V8 only G metric or big body monte's whatever. Bring them pretty close to a NSS super stock which is still an extremely affordable division for anyone and should be the simple model for a street stock.

Mini stock again K.I.S.S... 4cyl stock parts cars, fwd, rwd, efi, carb whatever if people start running away with things, make weight adjustments and go.

Simplify and use intelligence. 5 basic divisions is all that is needed. You aren't going to make everyone happy and it can't be done overnight but if you did similar to this I bet every track would share a minimum of 12-15 cars per division instantly.

[Phil Jacques]

The way "we got them to change tires" was a calculated effort for sure. We presented a plausible argument backed up by the affected racer's point of view. New Smyrna thought it made sense and took the lead by implementing testing despite the regional Hoosier rep not being cooperative. By coming up with an alternative and being a customer that demanded what it wanted NSS painted the Hoosier rep into a corner and we all got what we were looking for. Net result? The weekly Sportsman field at NSS has better than doubled.

I admire Phil's passion but the lesson to be learned here is that for ideas to be considered you have to respectfully make an intelligent argument for change that is beneficial to the people in charge AND step up and put your money where your mouth is. Trying to shame them into doing something or offering up advice as a faceless, fake screen name that prefers anonymity and that will not contact anyone nor divulge their identity at any cost (insert name here) isn't going to get you the time of day. Now if you can present a win-win-win outcome for your idea AND you have a skin in the game, you are way more likely to be heard.

And there is absolutely a reason I refuse to hide behind a fake name. Anyone can find me if they want to. If anyone wants to call and discuss ideas, they can always contact me. That's how I have become friends with Donnie and many others in racing management in general. I'm brash and have no filter, but I make no apologies for that. These tracks are intelligent enough that if they understand what I am saying they will understand the importance of everything.

[OldSchool+]

Scott,

That there red car looks like a "late model" to me.

In fact, the new consolidated class could be called...wait for it...

"Affordable Late Models"

"ALM" --Sounds all sporty car and professional, no?

[scottgarrity07]

If I took ALL the lead out of my car, drilled holes in it and became anorexic I still couldn't keep up with a Super with a restrictor plate at puny Auburndale. It LOOKS like a LM, but it's just a shiny Sportsman...

[OldSchool+]

Scott,

RE: The "other guy's" late model

Let's bolt in your mill and RF spring, put the 750's on it, and run the same overall weight and left side %.

That should do it, don't you think?

[scottgarrity07]

Scott,

RE: The "other guy's" late model

Let's bolt in your mill and RF spring, put the 750's on it, and run the same overall weight and left side %.

That should do it, don't you think?

It would. Problem is they all would howl and most of 'em would take their ball and go home!

[OldSchool+]

Well, they would not meet the rules of "ALM", so they would race special shows or tracks that had not yet "converted" (!).

But you are a car owner... Imagine if you are opening the wallet for their motor and tire bills, and running 8th.

And it blows up.

Now the choice is to build an "ALM" motor for 6-8K AND get a V8 speedboat, and run with Scott and have a chance at winning in a 20 car field.

Same car, same helmet, same green flag, same framming (maybe more), same "I get to be the hero", you are just UP 30K OR SO.

Seems like an easy choice to me...

[scottgarrity07]

I think Bobby Diehl has the right idea. From FAST to FUPS the Super, Pro, Limited leveling methods worked. When FUPS went FLOP the concept died. It wasn't the leveling that caused the death of FUPS. Bringing back the combined LM concept (along with cheapie shocks, no coil bind/bumps and a 3 race tire ( or a 4-2-2 rule, even) would do wonders to boost car counts. A NEW class requiring changing motors, etc would not be as successful IMHO.

[OldSchool+]

Fair enough.

There could be a transition period during which "compromise" rules such as FUP could be run.

Same car owner question though: Why should I run my big expensive motor with about a Harley's worth of added lead and only break even with Garrity?

Especially when it costs the same or less to build a "ALM" motor than a re-fresh of the big boy.

Actually, I think Diehl is on the same page.

And, of course, the other changes you mention will be met with much hand-wringing as well.

But I would suggest that asphalt racing is dying a slow death, and the "ALM" rules (or similar) will net more cars in a relatively short time, just as the modifieds are largely buying "airplane" tires instead of staying home.

[scottgarrity07]

I think what you will see is two kinds of Late Model racing. Status quo special event uber-dollar Supers and Diehl's Deal for good affordable weekly racing. Makes a ton of sense. I'm happy where I've landed. I'm getting older and although my love for wheeling a car will never diminish I have some other interests now too. Sportsman racing fits into my life quite nicely.