Matt Albee

[OldSchool+]

ps--what is up with this north vs south thing?

The Federal Guvment kicked the states-that-wanted-some-autonomy's tail royally 150 years ago with an excuse we all have heard run into the ground ever since.

And that was THAT!

Secondly, pretty much the only "crackers" here are the offspring of the northerners that have moved here. The "Southerners" (myself included long before OSW came to be) moved here to avoid the cold and clog up the roads.

There are a handful of promoters that have gotten themselves in a position to "promote", and like the France family, are going to do it their way. Period.

At best I can maybe toss an idea out there that they think will help them, their track, and their wallet, and they may use part of an idea and make it their own.

The rest, IMO, is worthless gumflappin' (southern term).

[Phil Jacques]

Every time I have gone to Showtime the grandstands--which Yoho has added to on multiple occasions--have been virtually filled. Not elbow to elbow, but no visible empty sections.

Every time I have gone to Showtime they have run multiple heats--splitting the cars--for each class.

I dunno about "facts", but that is what my own eyeballs have told me.

Further, as Groundpounder and Jacko (and 50racer) have stated (either directly or paraphrased) it is all a losing deal, it is just what "seems" reasonable to each individual.

Clearly, Showtime seems reasonable to those that are attending, and both gates look healthy to me.

Scott does not go (I believe) because he does not like to hang bodywork weekly. Fair enough. I doubt a nice clean free slab would change his mind.

So 1 track out of 8 is doing something right? That's definitely something to be proud of HOLD TRACK OWNERS ACCOUNTABLE! MAKE THEM DO THEIR JOBS!!!

Props to Yoho, I see good car counts on the results page with the exception of a useless 2 car Kids fast 4 field. But the fact that Yoho is pulling cars and fans is downright PROOF that it CAN BE DONE! I bet if Showtime had 7 car fields of strung out snoozing the front gate would suffer again too. So I thank you OldSchool for proving my point. Maybe the rest of FL can gain some insight from him. However, a slab fee is still ridiculous. Everywhere else I have ever been where there are paved pits and dirt pits, the top divisions get pavement, the rest get dirt.

[OldSchool+]

Phil's point: lol!

Ain't nobody makin' nobody do nuttin'!

As I am guessing some can attest to, becoming too much of a racket for a promoter will earn you close and repeated inspections, repeated negative track calls, and possibly suspension.

Like driving, racing is a privilege (one I cannot enjoy because I choose to not spend/borrow what it takes to be in the club).

Hats off to those that do what it takes to get there!

[scott bertram]

Gee, I had forgotten how dumb us redneck southerners are!

Phil is trying to give you a damn edumakation....... listen up.

[scott bertram]

Laziness, and unintelligent greed is killing us here. Tracks are content making the $ off the racers, and aren't smart enough to realize it wont last. Sure some high buck guys will stay in it forever but short of them who else will? The fans are sick of seeing the same old race. I can damn near call the top 5 every week before the engines start by seeing who showed up, the tracks have favorites that are "good ol boys" or that help line pockets, they get away with anything and are royalty. The rules cater to them.

It will not change, because it works for the key guys that have bottomless pits of $

Entry fees, pit slab fees, mandatory tire and fuel purchase, etc. can be a determining factor if I race or not, but to track favorite Jimmy Joe Bob with the 1/4 million $ hauler its no big deal.

IMO the guys that have unlimited $ (and not enough talent to go anywhere) combined with the laziness, corruption, and greed of track owners/promoters THATS what is killing our racing in Fl.

[Groundpounder]

HOLD TRACK OWNERS ACCOUNTABLE! MAKE THEM DO THEIR JOBS

You are too funny...I am sure they know their jobs, not sure that you know their jobs...

I am pretty sure it's to make a buck whether it pleases you or not at anybody's expense!

We can take it or leave it...

Look at SCCA or drag racing...you pay to play...reality.

[Phil Jacques]

You are too funny...I am sure they know their jobs, not sure that you know their jobs...

I am pretty sure it's to make a buck whether it pleases you or not at anybody's expense!

We can take it or leave it...

Look at SCCA or drag racing...you pay to play...reality.

Their job is to create an entertaining show for the fans and a run a fair program for racers. If you try to tell me that the majority of the tracks in FL are doing that right now, you are absolutely fucking delusional. Track owners and promoters are being lazy and taking the easy way out right now. They are putting in minimal effort END OF DISCUSSION!!! They come up with these ridiculous entry fees and slab fees just to try and cover their asses. How about finding ways to get cars on track and fans in the stands instead? Cause, isn't that the whole name of the game here?

[OldSchool+]

Phil,

Let's assume your talking points are correct.

>The track owners/promoters are (fill in blank here).

>And they need to change.

Or what...?

[Phil Jacques]

Phil,

Let's assume your talking points are correct.

>The track owners/promoters are (fill in blank here).

>And they need to change.

Or what...?

There is no assuming. If Showtime can run a successful show, what stops the rest of the state? What is Yoho doing, that no other tracks are doing? Why do his pits have cars and his stands have fans, and the others struggle so badly? Desoto is pretty hit and miss, New Smyrna is on a slow upswing right now, pictures I have seen from A-dale and Citrus are about par for the course right now with everyone else. All these tracks are fairly close to large populations.

I will say it once again, an entertaining on track product and good promoter WILL get fans in the stands every time. Fairness and intelligent rules will get drivers in the pits. It's all cyclical. I've been around racing in general for over 25 years now from Drag Racing, Karting and now Oval. I've raced in FL and raced up here. I've been to good places and been to bad. And all of what I speak is from personal experience in seeing what works and what doesn't and knowing how me and all my racer buddies like being treated by the tracks and knowing what I like to see as a fan. It's all common sense. These track owners and promoters are just trying to find the easiest way to line their pockets with no consideration for the stability of the sport in the state. It takes major effort to run these tracks and many people, myself included, see a great lacking in effort by a lot of these tracks. Some such as Showtime, Desoto and NSS SEEM to be making a concerted effort but charging racers excessive fees is not a way to draw interest from new drivers to visit your facility. Instead of making us take the hit, find a way to get more of us and that will help bring the fans in as well. It's a simple formula that many people just don't want to put the effort in to achieve.

[OldSchool+]

Agreed, Yoho has got it going on. He showed up with the ability to invest $$, and St Pete is rolling right along.

But regarding the rest, that are not doing quite as well, what are your proposals to "make" anyone do anything?

It is like dealing with a child:

You: "now you are just going to have to clean all those toys up right now!"

The kid: "or what?"

Now what?

[Groundpounder]

Their job is to create an entertaining show for the fans and a run a fair program for racers. If you try to tell me that the majority of the tracks in FL are doing that right now, you are absolutely fucking delusional. Track owners and promoters are being lazy and taking the easy way out right now. They are putting in minimal effort END OF DISCUSSION!!! They come up with these ridiculous entry fees and slab fees just to try and cover their asses. How about finding ways to get cars on track and fans in the stands instead? Cause, isn't that the whole name of the game here?

I'm not delusional (I don't use profane language on a board) but...

I certainly can control my emotions...

[OldSchool+]

Let's go with enthusiastic!

Imagine if someone pegs Phil in the LR quarter panel!

His nickname over the door could be "NS". Not for New Smyrna, but for "Northern Scofield"!!

And now for a few bars from "Deliverance":

[Phil Jacques]

Agreed, Yoho has got it going on. He showed up with the ability to invest $$, and St Pete is rolling right along.

But regarding the rest, that are not doing quite as well, what are your proposals to "make" anyone do anything?

It is like dealing with a child:

You: "now you are just going to have to clean all those toys up right now!"

The kid: "or what?"

Now what?

We got a bunch of them to change tires, did we not? All the tracks need to do is understand why they are losing business and their ass in the process. Ask any racer around and I bet they would be willing to make a couple small sacrifices in order to help the tracks find a direction that works for everybody. I know I certainly would, I bet Scott would also. I said this a while back and I will re-enforce it... We are in this TOGETHER. Without them, we do not race. Without us, they do not exist. Track promoters and owners HERE understand that and for the most part are more than willing to sit down and discuss issues and find solutions. It seems to me from what I have seen in person and read on here, that tracks down there only really care about putting money in their pocket however they have to do that. That's all fine and good if you want that financial well to run out eventually. If they work with us, and are able to give us a proper show and give the fans an entertaining product, that increases financial longevity for the track and helps us as well. It's all about give and take and right now there is all take and no give...

[Matt Albee]

Every time I have gone to Showtime the grandstands--which Yoho has added to on multiple occasions--have been virtually filled. Not elbow to elbow, but no visible empty sections.

Every time I have gone to Showtime they have run multiple heats--splitting the cars--for each class.

I dunno about "facts", but that is what my own eyeballs have told me.

Further, as Groundpounder and Jacko (and 50racer) have stated (either directly or paraphrased) it is all a losing deal, it is just what "seems" reasonable to each individual.

Clearly, Showtime seems reasonable to those that are attending, and both gates look healthy to me.

Scott does not go (I believe) because he does not like to hang bodywork weekly. Fair enough. I doubt a nice clean free slab would change his mind.

I don't know what the seating capacity is at Showtime, but as i recall it isn't a lot. So filling the grandstands there ( and you're right, it certainly isn't elbow to elbow ) isn't necessarily a big deal.
Nobody says Showtime hasn't made a huge turnaround. They sure have. Nobody says it doesn't draw fans and cars. It sure does. Mostly lower classes, but it draws cars. And it's probably in spite of Yoho, not because of. Yoho pays pretty good money. But that track always drew a big crowd and plenty of cars back in the day. The Tampa/St. Pete area just seems to love oval racing.
But Yoho is ripping off the racers to pay for his show. The fact that a couple of well heeled racers don't seem to mind, doesn't change that. How many more race cars would be there every week ( in the faster classes ) if he was charging a reasonable price for his gas and not holding " bend over " races? I don't know either, but i'll bet the number would be substantial. And even if no more cars showed up, it still isn't right or smart to keep raping the people who put on the show.

[OldSchool+]

"We got a bunch of them to change tires, did we not?"--PJ

Good point, sir!

However, whether they sell tire "A" or "B" their investment/return is the same.

Further, I would suggest we did not "get them" to do anything, they saw a benefit to them and moved forward.

It would be very nice if the tracks with lower car counts got together and came up with a few inexpensive classes with uniform rules.