How many Limited, Pro, and Supers are JUST sitting as garage trophies?

[scottgarrity07]

I think you and Bobby each have the same goals with different paths proposed. I think Bobby's goal is to get the parked cars out without having them spend anything to change. Your concept would be more competitive, his would draw more cars from the git-go.

Hell, it's KARNAC, how about a 3rd idea? Since the Super guys currently running are able to make it to the track how about catering exclusively to the "parked" cars and create a class from them? What do I mean? Well how about making the new class only allow the motor/chassis configurations that were considered to be non-competitive with the current Supers. No 9-1 or Super Spec engines. Basically eliminate rule 5 and 6 cars. Those are today's Supers. Those are the cars that put the others on jackstands. Maybe allow the "big" motors only in stock-clip, steering box, non coil over cars. More will come out if they know that don't ever have to compete with the current Supers. Kinda bridges both of the visions. Whattaya tink?

[OldSchool+]

His objective is far more important than my "solution".

[OldSchool+]

"Well how about making the new class only allow the motor/chassis configurations that were considered to be non-competitive with the current Supers. No 9-1 or Super Spec engines. Basically eliminate rule 5 and 6 cars. Those are today's Supers. Those are the cars that put the others on jackstands. Maybe allow the "big" motors only in stock-clip, steering box, non coil over cars. More will come out if they know that don't ever have to compete with the current Supers. Kinda bridges both of the visions. Whattaya tink?"--SG


It's like playing wack-a-mole. Ironically, the stock clip guys will basically have to trade motors with the bux up late models. Everybody spends money...

Say, you know anyone with a stock clip car that could really dig having a 30K mill under the hood...?

[Bobby Diehl]

I think you and Bobby each have the same goals with different paths proposed. I think Bobby's goal is to get the parked cars out without having them spend anything to change. Your concept would be more competitive, his would draw more cars from the git-go.

Hell, it's KARNAC, how about a 3rd idea? Since the Super guys currently running are able to make it to the track how about catering exclusively to the "parked" cars and create a class from them? What do I mean? Well how about making the new class only allow the motor/chassis configurations that were considered to be non-competitive with the current Supers. No 9-1 or Super Spec engines. Basically eliminate rule 5 and 6 cars. Those are today's Supers. Those are the cars that put the others on jackstands. Maybe allow the "big" motors only in stock-clip, steering box, non coil over cars. More will come out if they know that don't ever have to compete with the current Supers. Kinda bridges both of the visions. Whattaya tink?

This is a board that allows for ideas. I think all three are great. And not convinced that there are not even more ideas that would help. We all want the same thing. The make the Tracks the BEST they came be. Not bitching about how much they make in profit, or how only the back gate make the tracks survive.

The Tracks have revenue streams, Front Gate (Fans in the stands), Back Gate the competitors and supporters (Fans that pay the extra to get close to the Teams). Both should have concession stands that can work efficiently to supply the food and drinks (at maximum profit margins, Coke in the box)to the people. Sponsors (ie. Bill Boards, signage around the Tracks) Divisional Sponsors, Laps Sponsors, Race Events, Tire sales, race fuel, parts, gift cards, ride a longs, gift shops, display areas (supporting racing), on and on..... If you can think of other revenue streams list them. You know all the Track Owner look at this board (if not they are not paying attention and it's no wonder they are in the condition they are in or they just need a right off for all the money they made from working hard at another type of business).
Everyone of these concept only improve all the numbers!!!! As always thanks a be sure to support a Track near you!!!!

[Bobby Diehl]

Got an email......

I got an email from a Team that's running both and Pro-Late and Truck. They put what they read into their own view or understanding. I asked if I could share their email and name. They preferred to remain anonymous. So I respect their wishes, I explained that some said yes to their names, but didn't want specifics points attached (they didn't want to be in the middle of anything). Their views and ideas are GREAT ones. Looking forward to helping support the Racer, and Tracks. Positivity creates positivity. He voiced that not to hurt someone for not having a ABC body (making them spend money mite cause in a delay or keep them from running). Not to change to much from what is being run now. Shocks and 8" tires mite make someone not race. Lastly I feel that the Super survived because they we3re the only class that could survive the tuff times. Again THANKS for the input!!! And let's go RACING!!!

[tom77hmstd]

We have 2 turnkey SLM, It is not the shocks, not the springs, not the bump stops, bodys or the engines, we have all that. Do the math. $660 tires $100 entry $100 car gas $100 or more pit pass pit slab or whatever else they can charge us for.$960.00 spent before we even get on track. How many folks have that kind of disposable income? not many anymore I think, THAT is the reason why cars are parked. Work on that. And that is no travel expense or a hot dog.

[OldSchool+]

Tom,

With all due respect, and I mean all due respect, how have you managed the $60-100K to get those two cars? Actually that is your bidness, skip it.

Further, I assume that the costs you list have gone up incrementally over time.

For the benefit of track owners that may like to see two more cars, what would it take for you to get back into it?

[tom77hmstd]

Answer: a lot of horse trading scrounging good used parts and payments on some stuff, building a lot of our own stuff rather than buying it. And accumulating stuff over time. Only way to offset the expense is to rent them out something like Timmy Russell and Anthony Campi are doing.
I got back into owing these things in 1996 tires 413.90, fuel was around 4 bucks a gallon for race fuel and Florida pro entry was $75. Paid 2500 to win 250 to start. Hooters cup tires were 550 entry 125 paid 1000 to start and 15000 to win. In our first try at Lakeland finished 16th got paid $1750. Also we had a sponser for truck fuel which helped a bunch. We are just regular working people over our heads (me and Tommy Jr.). I started working on Larry Middleton"s late model at Raceway Park cleaning parts in 1963 and got hooked ruined my kid getting him hooked and don't know how to quit.

[Groundpounder]

I started working on Larry Middleton"s late model at Raceway Park cleaning parts in 1963

Wow, that's a name I remember from the past as Raceway Park was my local ST as a kid. BLUE ISLAND!

Sorry for the distraction...back to your discussion.

[Bobby Diehl]

One of the best thing are the poeople who write on it....

This board has been around a long time, but within the board is a untold numbers of racers that read and contribute to the treads. Many are the new generation, but some of the racers are from as far back as racing in Florida. Tom is one of the longest active (and I mean active) Racers we have. When he gives his two cent it is from the experience that only time gives. Tom is one of the Hardest Racers I have ever meet. I can remember a problem at CCMP Late Model race that we resolved and he gave me a Old way talking to. I learned a bunch from Tom. He's seen the good times and bad. He also knows how to keeping going in the toughest times. I haven't talk to Tom yet (Tom please call me 813-817-7223), but when I get a chance he will help with the knowledge we are looking for. His passion is second to none. Knowing that the goal is to make it so all of us have a place to race. Everyone knows car count is everything. The idea of a retreaded harder tire (that doesn't fall off for 3 to 5 races) would cut one of the costliest part of racing (I would ask Tom as one of several racers to bring their cars to test the tires and evaluate if the durability is really there). And with more cars means more money (tracks new found money) for support of the Racers. I know the revenue stream on the tires is about $25.00 per tire, but the rest of the revenue increased by the car count would raise the over all Track revenue from the Racers Back Gate. Tires at $660.00 per race (minimum hopefully no flats from cuts) to $400.00 over a 4 race would be $2640.00 -$400.00= $2200.00 savings. Of course we only have the manufactures word on the durability of their tires (we need to test them). Also I think if the High Dollars Teams who don't see the need to join they could have Special Super Late races. Then they won't have such a speed difference from some of the Teams just trying so hard to just hang on (have seen so many times when within a few laps of the green or restarts the leaders crash because of a rolling road block) and get CRASHED (and now everyone pays big for repairs that takes cars out of the car count next race). I really think there are only positives for everyone. Again Tom please call me. Just my thoughts. Hope to see at the races!!!!! =Fans!!!!

[Bobby Diehl]

Still working on the tire testing.

So far we have a Super and a Pro Late Model that have interest the testing of the recaps (looking for a Limited to test). There are a growing number of parked cars very interested bring a level playing field. It would be GREAT to get a large field of Late Model, and I sure the Promoter will get those Fans in the stands. Stay tuned for updates. Thanks for reading tread!!!!

[Bobby Diehl]

Still working on the Late Models....

The FASTRUCK program came over night. I have been working on both, but my priority must be the trucks. Hang in there they aren't going anywhere. If there is someone looking at jumping in the ground work is laid and ready to launch. Call me and I will help were I can.....

[Bobby Diehl]

OK here's were we are today.

Just got off the phone. The tires company looking to support the Late Model Program. Again we are Limited to test. Call me at 813-817-7223. Thanks!!!!!
='s Fans!!!!!

[Bobby Diehl]

Talked to Wayne and he's on board and ready to test!!!!!

Man getting one of the TOP Supers that finished 2nd last night (he won $1100.00). But that's all a track can pay if there aren't 30+ cars in the field. Now let me tell you Wayne hasn't even looked at KARNAC in over 3 years. When I told him about the tread he reminded me about how I took the Crate cars a they ran 200 lbs lighter and 2% more left side and that made them as fast as the Supers. Oh yeah he ran the CCMP Late Model division where all the Late Models ran together. He said he wants to be part of the tire test of the recaps. I told him I already had a Super and than BING a light went off . Why not have 15 or 20 cars testing. 5 or so Supers, 5 or so Limited, 5 or so Pro. Hey and then have the Teams decided the difference for each type of Late Model's to make and level playing field.

THANKS Wayne!!!! You are the MAN.