Spec Engine Parts List

[OldSchool+]

Thx, Eric.

Soooooooo the SPEC motor can basically run with a higher dollar "built" motor because it has another 20 or so cubic inches.

Makes sense. Finally.

And the Tech guy knows "the rules" for both.

[RowdyBloomquist]

Thx, Eric.

Soooooooo the SPEC motor can basically run with a higher dollar "built" motor because it has another 20 or so cubic inches.

Makes sense. Finally.

And the Tech guy knows "the rules" for both.

In a nutshell...yes

[OldSchool+]

And are the precise rules details available somewhere for Old Racer or...
are they only known by the tech man and Progressive?

[RowdyBloomquist]

http://www.5flagsspeedway.com/wp-con...15SSSRULES.pdf

[OldSchool+]

Thx RB.

The earlier mentioned SSPE rules are there, but they are based on the 362 ci motor with 11.5:1 compression (!!).
(the beginning is listed below)

Southern Super Parts Engine (SSPE)
Southern Super Parts Engine (May Be Claimed for $21,000 + pulling fee)
1. Maximum Engine displacement is 362 cubic inches.

The answer on the SPEC engine thus far appears to be..."no".

Hard to believe. "That guy just beat me, what is he running?" "A 'SPEC' engine"."Really. What is that?" "No one knows. You have to buy one".
Also note that the 9:1 motors may be phased out starting in 2016.

No wonder the fields are light. Let's see, I have $15k I could pay down my mortgage with, but I want to build a new motor for my late model. What is the best choice?

I believe I would buy a Sportsman Crate motor and pay down $10k on the house.

[OWM94]

If I am not mistaken the Super Spec Motor is 390CI

[RowdyBloomquist]

Dalton, it might be 390... I thought it was in the neighborhood of 377. Uses a 4.155 bore (400 block bored .30 over) and a 3.48 stroke (stock 350) crank. Either way, it is a big bore short stroke combo to make less torque and more HP for better traction up off.

So I guess the answer to the question, "Is there a build list for the Progressive SPEC motor?" is no. There isn't one published that I know of since Wayne Anderson's FAST series dissolved. It used to be out there. In reality, it really doesn't matter what is in it. If you want one, buy one. If not, build your own. The other mentioned "Spec" motor is still the same concept and can get equal dyno numbers for a comparable cost with any engine builder you desire.

So long story short, SLM drivers have plenty of options as to what and who they want to run for a motor in their car. Starting from around 17k and ranging to about 35k. If you can't afford it I suggest buying a street stock or sportsman as above mentioned.

Eric Purcell

[Matt Albee]

Dalton, it might be 390... I thought it was in the neighborhood of 377. Uses a 4.155 bore (400 block bored .30 over) and a 3.48 stroke (stock 350) crank. Either way, it is a big bore short stroke combo to make less torque and more HP for better traction up off.

So I guess the answer to the question, "Is there a build list for the Progressive SPEC motor?" is no. There isn't one published that I know of since Wayne Anderson's FAST series dissolved. It used to be out there. In reality, it really doesn't matter what is in it. If you want one, buy one. If not, build your own. The other mentioned "Spec" motor is still the same concept and can get equal dyno numbers for a comparable cost with any engine builder you desire.

So long story short, SLM drivers have plenty of options as to what and who they want to run for a motor in their car. Starting from around 17k and ranging to about 35k. If you can't afford it I suggest buying a street stock or sportsman as above mentioned.

Eric Purcell

" it really doesn't matter what is in it " ??????? If there isn't a list of legal parts and specs for this mystery engine, then you can put anything you want into it. But doesn't that defeat the purpose of a spec engine. This sounds like a Ricky Brooks ego rule. " I know what's in em and i'm the only one that needs to know"
Maybe racers don't want to buy one, maybe they want to build their own. Problem with that idea is that the racer won't have any idea what's legal and what's not. You don't even know..." it might be 390, i thought it was in the neighborhood of 377 " .
And the Five Flags rules don't apply state wide do they? This sounds like the tech guys are making it up as they go along. Well, one tech guy anyway.

[RowdyBloomquist]

Matt you must not be too familiar with today's SLM racing and its rules. Steve and Brian from Progressive started building these motors years ago before Ricky Brooks became so prominent. Side note: he is probably the best tech man the sport has seen in a long time. Strict but fair. But this really has nothing to do with him.

There is a parts list that the builders for these motors have.... The reason only a few are allowed to build them, is to try and keep a level playing field. Like you said, you can put whatever you want in them....That goes for any class, any engine, any state. That's what tech and protests are for. With the SPEC's, if an engine is in question by racers or tech man, they can have it opened up for inspection. Which has happened a couple of times. You have 3 options to buy a "Florida Spec" motor. Progressive, Crume, or Cope. If you don't want one of those, choose the SSPE engine which ANYONE can build. If you don't like that, choose the 9:1, if you don't like that, choose the flat top steel head motor....if you don't like that, go play iracing....

Just a question for you Matt, do you own a race car or race? I see you are quite prominent on this board, but I have never met you at the track (and I've been everywhere and know a lot of people.) If not, why concern yourself with this debate.


Eric Purcell

[RowdyBloomquist]

And yes the 5 flags rules are pretty global. Most tracks run these rules in the state of FL and most of the touring SLM series do as well. Why wouldn't you want the same rules everywhere??? Seems that would make it easier to go from track to track and not have to worry about owning 5 different chassis with 15 different motor combos....

[OldSchool+]

Rowdy,

"[Can you imagine] owning 5 different chassis with 15 different motor combos....[?]--RB

Great point!

How many sets of rules are there for Cup engines?

I know they change frequently, but can you imagine the Toyoter (or Dodge, or whatever) motors just having a wax seal on them and NASCAR deems them "legal"?

Tony Stewart would literally have a cow on the spot.

How about one set of Rules? If they are too expensive-- change them.

I also do not have a race car, but (IMO) all input should be considered to be possibly helpful, and can easily be discarded if irrelevant.

[Matt Albee]

Matt you must not be too familiar with today's SLM racing and its rules. Steve and Brian from Progressive started building these motors years ago before Ricky Brooks became so prominent. Side note: he is probably the best tech man the sport has seen in a long time. Strict but fair. But this really has nothing to do with him.

There is a parts list that the builders for these motors have.... The reason only a few are allowed to build them, is to try and keep a level playing field. Like you said, you can put whatever you want in them....That goes for any class, any engine, any state. That's what tech and protests are for. With the SPEC's, if an engine is in question by racers or tech man, they can have it opened up for inspection. Which has happened a couple of times. You have 3 options to buy a "Florida Spec" motor. Progressive, Crume, or Cope. If you don't want one of those, choose the SSPE engine which ANYONE can build. If you don't like that, choose the 9:1, if you don't like that, choose the flat top steel head motor....if you don't like that, go play iracing....

Just a question for you Matt, do you own a race car or race? I see you are quite prominent on this board, but I have never met you at the track (and I've been everywhere and know a lot of people.) If not, why concern yourself with this debate.


Eric Purcell

The " you can't possibly know what we racers know " routine has been run up the flagpole many times before Eric. It has just as little to do with this thread as any other thread. But as you haven't been paying attention...no, i don't currently own, drive, work on, or sponsor a race car. I also don't own or work at a race track. I'm going to go ahead and concern myself with this debate whether it suits you or not.
Yes, we did meet at a track a couple of years ago.
It looks like we're right back to the beginning. Only a very small handful of engine builders are allowed to build the super secret SPEC engine. That doesn't level the playing field at all, it just gives the many engine builders who aren't included far less money in their pockets and far less customers.
Now if i read your post correctly, even though the average racer has no idea what parts are included in the SPEC engines, he can protest another racer using a SPEC engine, and that racer might be illegal, but only the tech guy would know. Well, makes perfectly good sense.
Not only that, you say the entire Florida short track community has adopted the rule book from 5 Flags. That's the track that makes most of it's racers buy gas and tires from the track. Yet every track has it's own rule book. Go figure.
The band keeps playing as the ship sinks.
Universal rules ( sensible ones, not secret ones ) are always a good idea. But there aren't any, nor does it look like there will be anytime soon.

[RowdyBloomquist]

I agree, one motor would be nice, but they way the rules were when they implemented the SPEC motor was to include the motors that were already racing. So you didn't have to drop another $15k on a motor just to race next year.

If you look at NASCAR, there are only a select few engine builders. Chevy has 2 or 3, Toyota 1 or 2, Dodge is gone... and Ford has 2 or 3. Florida SLM racers have a ton of different options. So I am unclear on why there is such a big fuss about it...???

This is the upper echelon of short track racing, the days of building a Late Model in your garage on jack stands and your buddy slapping together a small block 350 from the junk yard has been long gone. If you cannot afford a SPEC motor or to build the other SSPE option, or 9:1, then you need not be SLM racing. Build a Street Stock.

The reality has become, you are competing against guys that have 3-4 full time employees, show up in a NASCAR hauler, and unload 2-3 cars for a 100 lap $3000 to win race. A couple of the CRA/Southern Super Series teams I've talked with are spending over $500,000 a year to go Late model racing. It's absurd. But that is what you are racing against. Plus you have all these cup guys with latemodel teams with rich kids driving their cars. I watched KBM's crew chief at speedweeks walk out on the racetrack at New Smyrna with a lazer level a couple of times, then go to his computer, then change the spindles on the race car before even hitting the track...So a $17k motor is the least of Short Track SLM racing's worries. Most of the big money guys have Ernie Elliot or Hamner 9:1's that cost about $40k and make over 650hp.

The local guys are obvisouly not spending that much but you get the point. The SPEC and the SSPE motors are affordable options that can run with these motors for broke dick racers like myself try top compete with these boys. Hell, a good set of 4 shocks anymore is around $5k once you incorporate your bump stops and other hardware.

[RowdyBloomquist]

Matt, each track is going to have different rules about tires, fuel, entry fees etc... But the major rules as it applies to SLM racing, which that is what we are debating, are basically universal. The weight, the engine combos, the suspension... most others are minute differences. To stay on track with the SPEC motor, I agree everyone should know what is in them. That would be great. But the fact of the matter is, it will probably never be publicly displayed. You don't have to buy a SPEC motor...the SSPE option is used just as much now if not more. Plus you have other sealed motor options with Hamner, Ford, and McGunnegil. I just really don't see what the fuss is all about with the SPEC motor. It really is the LEAST of the problem with SLM racing. IMO

[OldSchool+]

"I agree, one motor would be nice, but they way the rules were when they implemented the SPEC motor was to include the motors that were already racing. So you didn't have to drop another $15k on a motor just to race next year."--RB

Got that, and it was very reasonable at the time. It would also be reasonable if there were large areas running one or the other and then they could all get together for big races. How many of those original engines are still intact--and competitive? If the answer is "few", then they could have been replaced with a single-engine formula along the way. Actually, it would be simple. Similar to the new tires coming on the scene, pare them down to two, and then one, set of rules. Two years tops.

"If you look at NASCAR, there are only a select few engine builders."--RBII

Yep, but only one set of rules. In fact, the engines are designed to the rules these days, not the other way around. The "select few" engine builders are the best at maximizing the single set of rules.

Similarly, if there are two or ten SLM builders--if they are the best, and not just guaranteed an ongoing business due to exclusive rights, they will be the select few building engines to one set of rules.

I just don't see how this cuts costs at all. If I want the "fastest" motor and I pay big bux and then am beat--particularly by the mystery SPEC motor, I am thinking I have to lay out another big wad o cash as opposed to fine tuning my existing stuff.

But hey, if everybody's happy, I'm happy.