Spec Engine Parts List

[Matt Albee]

I've seen the concrete pads in the pits. I didn't realize racers had to pay to use them.
You have to pay an entry fee, you have to pay for pit passes, you have to purchase track gas and tires at track prices, and then you get to "rent" a pit stall? Seems like the entire pit area should be in decent shape so the racers wouldn't be forced to rent a usable space. The track owners haven't missed very many ways to rape the racers have they? It really won't be long before the racers have a 4 coke and 4 hamburger mandatory purchase.

[turnleft]

Slabs?

Matt, although I do not agree with racers having to pay to park, or renting slabs; the reality of it, is the front gate attendance has dropped to an all time low, and the track owners have had to make more profit (parking, tires, fuel) off the racer, to keep there doors open. The state of asphalt racing is grim, including Nascar, just look at the stands! Vince P.

[Matt Albee]

That's where you're wrong, track owners can't keep making up the difference off of the racers. The front injector has dropped off because there's no show anymore. There aren't very many racers left, and i can guess why after reading all of the fees they have to pay. The number one reason racers give when asked why they've parked their cars, is it's too expensive to race. Reason number two is that the purse hasn't kept up with the costs.
What would make anyone think that the solution is to keep grabbing more and more money from the people who put on the show? The solution is to bring in sponsors that are willing to put their money toward increasing the purse. From what i've read on here, the points fund is just smoke and mirrors by tracks and suppliers to sell products while forcing the racers to pay their own points fund.
I don't understand everything about the spec engine, but if there are spec engine tracks, then the spec engine rules should be posted for everyone. If the spec engine program is nothing more than an exclusive club, only for certain engine builders who are willing to pay to be included, then i'd say it's another track owner rip off of the racers.
I just can't imagine why Florida ovals are losing cars and fans.

[turnleft]

Facts

Matt, by all means, I do not agree with the tracks making all ther profit off the back gate, I was just stating the facts. I also agree there are a lot of solutions, and all of yours make sense. But since we do not own any of the tracks, easier said then done. I believe the fans have all gone, because of the horrible car counts. Ever time I have gone to and asphalt race in the last 3 years, I say to myself, it was bad, and boring, because of the car count. It is going to take a track owner with deep pockets to get the car count back up, and then I believe the fans will come back, but it is going to have to be in that order.

[Don Nerone]

the spec engine idea started in the north and south at the same time.
The cost of a 9 to 1 was over $40,000 for a new one. the as u would call it Rule engine from the engine builders had gone over $30,000.
The idea of the spec engine was to match the hp for a low cost.
The reason the teams don't get a parts list is because they cant build one anyway. The cost when it started was $16,000.
There is no gringing polishing blasting dipping or any other things done to the original parts to run up cost. Just parts.
The engine is sealed and sold to the teams.
No tracks get anything of the sale of these engines. They last and they are fast and 1/2 the cost
There are 3 engine builders in florida and when I left there were 2 in the north.
These engines are not the only ones in SLM. There are some 9to1 and steel head teams still out there. There choice.
The tracks and teq people have the list of parts and seal # for these engines so there is no secret.

don62

[turnleft]

Correct

Don62, you r 100% correct. Vince

[dd38]

I have asked for years to get a parts list for the Florida Spec Engine and was told you cannot get it. Only way you could get one is buy one and tear it down. the only other is to go with the one Ricky Brooks talked about is the way to go. But that's my opinion. You don't need a spec block, pistons, rods, push rods, crank and so on with the SSPE engine. Just as long as they fit the rules(weight & dimensions). It doesn't matter what brand the parts are unlike the Florida "Spec" engine is where the parts have to be of a certain brand too.

[Lurkin]

Although I think you were a bit hard on RB, I understood him, this has been an informative thread. I was totally in the dark about the motor situation with the supers. Last time I was privy to the cost of an engine for the supers it was 25 grand, and that was for a mid priced engine. Sounds like they have it pretty much under control now.

[tom77hmstd]

The parts lists for both the super spec and the limited spec are on the internet somewhere as they were in Wayne Anderson's FAST series rules. An internet pro should be able to find them.

[Matt Albee]

the spec engine idea started in the north and south at the same time.
The cost of a 9 to 1 was over $40,000 for a new one. the as u would call it Rule engine from the engine builders had gone over $30,000.
The idea of the spec engine was to match the hp for a low cost.
The reason the teams don't get a parts list is because they cant build one anyway. The cost when it started was $16,000.
There is no gringing polishing blasting dipping or any other things done to the original parts to run up cost. Just parts.
The engine is sealed and sold to the teams.
No tracks get anything of the sale of these engines. They last and they are fast and 1/2 the cost
There are 3 engine builders in florida and when I left there were 2 in the north.
These engines are not the only ones in SLM. There are some 9to1 and steel head teams still out there. There choice.
The tracks and teq people have the list of parts and seal # for these engines so there is no secret.

don62

Thank you for the information Don. I had heard some of this before, but didn't know the details.
If i read your post correctly, the spec engine builders are an exclusive club. You mention that there are only three of them. And Ricky proudly points out that they all three contribute money.
Who was it that picked these three builders and left everyone else out?
And why were any engine builders left out?
Am i correct in thinking that any of the other hundred or so engine builders in Florida can join the "spec engine builders club" if they're willing to put up money?
And is there any real reason the tracks aren't willing to share their secret list of parts for the spec engines?
Because it seems to me that the racer ought to be allowed to build his own, or have one built by the engine guy of his choice as long as the parts list is followed and the secret seals are affixed to the engine.

[Lurkin]

There's a very clearly defined and laid out set of rules for the build your own if you, or your engine builder(s) wants to.

[JWP]

Just curious why the cost of the motors is such a hot topic?
Why don't they spec out cars and only let certain people build them?
Has anyone checked on the price of a new car these days, well go ahead and see it is way above the motor price. Lets not even start talking about the transmissions and these new shocks. Blame it all on the motor builder. From the races I have seen lately NSS gov cup, speed weeks, Desoto last night, Southern super race today in Opp, Ala. one of my motors will by far out last a car. Racers crashe and repair cars by far more than a motor. So go figure how and who is saving what????? I guess it depends on who you ask.

Last point the best car counts that I recall in Florida were during Burt Ashelmans Florida Pro series. Built motors lots of builders choose your own, build your own etc... Bring it to tech and get it checked. If I recall 1996 season opener at Lake city my first super late race. There was a B main and several cars did not make the show and likewise at several other races throughout the season.

[JWP]

One last point I left out..

I worked for Dennis Boyd for oh 20 years or so.. We built winning NASCAR Busch motors that were 30k and super late motors that were 26-28k for many years. So when I see these post were the motors were 40k I get a little confused and aggravated. I didn't see any of our customers loose races because they didn't have enough motor or didn't spend that 40k or more. Seems like the numbers have been skewed?????? Sometimes people talk about shit they know nothing about...

If anyone needs built motors call. You do not have to buy a sPeC.
SSPE parts engine for Florida and touring series Cars and Southern Super Series

Jacob Warren

[OldSchool+]

Am all confused.

Since the beginning of automobiles the first thing has been to "hop up the engine" to go faster. The second thing has been to limit the modifications so that a field is somewhat equal.

Yet no mention of displacement, compression, camshaft limitations...

If a $17K (or whatever) motor can hang with a $40K motor--with decent longevity, what is in the $40K motor that makes it $40K? I mean, every motor I have ever built has always been limited by cash. Cast crank? Cast pistons? And on and on.

Seems like the conversation would go like: "...and then there is xyz crank which is lighter and stronger, and some new titanium valves, same deal, and...".

Simlarly, does tech just say "Oh, it is just an ABC company spec motor, no need to look at that..."

Finally, if you "build your own" --what are the guidelines?

Seems like that would get closer to the original question regarding a parts list.

[RowdyBloomquist]

Am all confused.

Since the beginning of automobiles the first thing has been to "hop up the engine" to go faster. The second thing has been to limit the modifications so that a field is somewhat equal.

Yet no mention of displacement, compression, camshaft limitations...

If a $17K (or whatever) motor can hang with a $40K motor--with decent longevity, what is in the $40K motor that makes it $40K? I mean, every motor I have ever built has always been limited by cash. Cast crank? Cast pistons? And on and on.

Seems like the conversation would go like: "...and then there is xyz crank which is lighter and stronger, and some new titanium valves, same deal, and...".

Simlarly, does tech just say "Oh, it is just an ABC company spec motor, no need to look at that..."

Finally, if you "build your own" --what are the guidelines?

Seems like that would get closer to the original question regarding a parts list.

The "SPEC" motors are I believe a 374-377 which would be a de-stroked 400 block with 350 crank. With the increased displacement and some good flowing Brodix heads, pop-up pistons, and decent internals to make around 610-620 hp with mid 500's tq. for $17k not dressed.

The 9-1 guys were spending 25-30k+ because they had to spend so much money on lightweight internals like 35lb cranks, titanium rods, titanium valves, coated this, lightened that, acid dip, port and polish work, $3k on a cheated up 390 carb etc....all trying to stay within the box they were put with the compression rule.

The SPEC/Sealed motor definitely helped save SLM racing as far as $ goes. All are built the "same" and the tech man has the parts list and tolerances. Generally as long as it is sealed no one questions anything. But if need be, they can be opened up and checked just like everything else.

Progressive had the monopoly on this motor for so long because he was the one that helped developed it. And of course, reaping all the benefits, why would you want to give away your business to other builders. It took a few years but now you can get them from Cope, Crume, McGunegill, and Hamner that I know of. Also, like Ricky Brooks said, you can build your own from a parts list. JWP has I think one or 2 out there with Daniel Keene.

And yes Ricky IS basically in charge of the SPEC motor Matt. He is the head tech man basically for the state of FL for SLM racing. He plays fair and will DQ Kyle Busch, Steven Wallace, or Chase Elliot just as quick as you and I...I've seen it.

Hope this helps

Eric Purcell