OWM 50 Lap Race

[Matt Albee]

Well, I don't know about the Pro Lates or Super Lates but no other classes are required to buy fuel and none of the classes are required to buy tires from NSS (you do have to comply with the tire rule). I've raced there quite a bit last year so this is first hand knowledge.

That being said, I agree that these requirements are ridiculous and self defeating. It's all about psychology. Entry fee? Mandatory purchases? These terms conjur up negative and overbearing feelings about being forced to do something. No doubt, it keeps teams away. Realistically? As a racer, I'm going to buy tires from the track the night I'm racing to avoid hours of travel for that same purpose on a non race night. If it's a big race, I'm probably buying four anyway, required or not. Race fuel, same deal. Most racers are likely to buy it at the track because of the convenience. It's no big deal to spend a buck more a gallon if you have to drive your gas guzzler pickup an hour each way to get it somewhere else. Entry fee? Come on! Just take $50 away from each paying position. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out $1000 to win, $100 to start with a $50 entry fee is really $950 to win $50 to start. But the PERCEPTION you are getting fleeced that $50 will keep many racers away. Smaller field, crappier show. Bad for the fans, racers AND track operators.

Keep beating the drum on this one Matt. As a racer I'm with you 100% on this topic.

And don't get me started on "slab fees"...

It isn't really a question of convenience so much as it is forcing the racer to buy something they don't want and don't need. When you have a perfectly good set of tires on the car, but they didn't come from NSS, you are required to buy their tires at their price. You didn't need tires? Too bad. Buy them or don't race. Same with gas. You had plenty of gas from the week before? Too bad, you are required to purchase a minimum amount from them at their price.
Racers just can't afford to throw money away on things they don't want or need. And they shouldn't be forced to.
Now about those slab fees. I've heard that term many times but i'm not familiar with what they are or what they're supposed to do for the racer. Or more probably for the track owner.

[JC26]

Yoho and Showtime got threw into this one because this topic concerns every racer and every track.
First, nobody asked how much Showtime pays. But you better tell Yoho to up the purse if he plans to stay up with the better tracks in the area.
Glad to hear that racers can use any gas at Showtime and aren't required to purchase from the track. But i also notice that racers are forced to buy gas for BIG events. So the racers get to pay their own purse for BIG events.
I notice you sidestepped the issue of tires though. Are racers required to purchase their tires from Showtime only?
And are racers who refuse to purchase tires and gas from Showtime still eligible for the points fund?
I'm trying to get track owners to stop using the racers money to put on the show, and instead bring in sponsors. That's my deal.

Showtime is neck and neck with Desoto for modified payouts as the best in the state.

As far as the only 2 races that require fuel and tire purchases at the race track, fuel is only $4 more for 10 gallons of fuel at the track than it is at Steele Performance. And Jay sells tires, and you can buy them from him at any given point in time. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that Showtime has the best tire guy in Florida. Not to mention his tires are $3-5.cheaper than Desoto. I get your stance on trying to fight for the racer, but this topic about mandatory tire and fuel purchases is getting to be redundant. Especially when you're spewing misinformation about a track and promoter who has the best modified car count in the state right now.

[50racer]

If it was not for Yoho and Desoto we would still be running for 400-600 to win and poor payouts in the Modifieds.

The money from these tracks in the last 2 years has allowed the West Coast Modifieds drivers to be able to step up their programs and be able to go any where in the state and run well and win. AKA NSS Speed Weeks and Snowball Derby. We show up in good car count numbers with great looking cars and but on a great show for the fans.

We have to buy fuel and tires from someone, why not support the tracks that are returning good payouts

[BallewM]

Yoho and Showtime got threw into this one because this topic concerns every racer and every track.
First, nobody asked how much Showtime pays. But you better tell Yoho to up the purse if he plans to stay up with the better tracks in the area.
Glad to hear that racers can use any gas at Showtime and aren't required to purchase from the track. But i also notice that racers are forced to buy gas for BIG events. So the racers get to pay their own purse for BIG events.
I notice you sidestepped the issue of tires though. Are racers required to purchase their tires from Showtime only?
And are racers who refuse to purchase tires and gas from Showtime still eligible for the points fund?
I'm trying to get track owners to stop using the racers money to put on the show, and instead bring in sponsors. That's my deal.

Matt, Showtime does not require us to buy tires unless it's an impound race.

[Matt Albee]

I see Rick called in the reinforcements.

Let me go over this one more time so everyone is up to speed.
The racers are putting on the show, the tracks are providing the venue. The racers already support the tracks by paying entry fees, and/or pit passes, and/or slab fees not to mention buying food and drinks. At many tracks in Florida, the racers are also expected...and some forced, to buy official track products. The tracks say that brand x tires are the official tire, and you have to purchase them at each track. I realize that in some cases you could simply go to the tire supplier and buy from him, but the tracks would lose their cut of the profits and the practice would be halted quickly. Don't think so? Lets find out. Every racer who needs race tires go to Jay, or whoever supplies the tires for their track and buy from the supplier only.
Same goes for gas. The only prices i've heard for gas around here is $8. And that's at Desoto. The speed shops around here are at about the same price. So Desoto looks like they are in line. If your track charges more, then you're getting gouged. But if your track is making you buy tires or gas from them, all that means is you're paying your own purse and points fund.
Once again, the purse and the points fund should be payed entirely by the front injector and sponsors. Not sponsors who want the racer to reimburse them for the money they spend. Racers don't have the extra cash to pay for that nonsense.
I believe in supporting the tracks too, but not if the track can't be bothered to bring in sponsors instead of getting the racers to pay for everything.

[Matt Albee]

Matt, Showtime does not require us to buy tires unless it's an impound race.

Okay, but why would you be forced to purchase tires from the track at all? Could you get a better price if you were allowed to buy from anyone? There have been posts about buying tires and having them shipped in, for less than the tracks charge. I just think the racers should have the option to purchase what they want, when they want, for the best price they can find.

[Matt Albee]

If it was not for Yoho and Desoto we would still be running for 400-600 to win and poor payouts in the Modifieds.

The money from these tracks in the last 2 years has allowed the West Coast Modifieds drivers to be able to step up their programs and be able to go any where in the state and run well and win. AKA NSS Speed Weeks and Snowball Derby. We show up in good car count numbers with great looking cars and but on a great show for the fans.

We have to buy fuel and tires from someone, why not support the tracks that are returning good payouts

I've followed Florida racing for a long time, and the West Coast mods have always been as good as any in the state. And Jimmy Cope has always built beautiful cars.
Yes, you have to buy fuel and tires. And you should be able to buy from anyone you want. You should be able to get a group together and buy tires and gas if you want to. But you won't be allowed to.

[Matt Albee]

Showtime is neck and neck with Desoto for modified payouts as the best in the state.

As far as the only 2 races that require fuel and tire purchases at the race track, fuel is only $4 more for 10 gallons of fuel at the track than it is at Steele Performance. And Jay sells tires, and you can buy them from him at any given point in time. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that Showtime has the best tire guy in Florida. Not to mention his tires are $3-5.cheaper than Desoto. I get your stance on trying to fight for the racer, but this topic about mandatory tire and fuel purchases is getting to be redundant. Especially when you're spewing misinformation about a track and promoter who has the best modified car count in the state right now.

I guess the question would be, why are there ANY races that require gas and tire purchases from the track?

[Matt Albee]

why don't you get a big billboard at your track and put your name up in highlights .what car do you race

Any car that's offered.

[Matt Albee]

What really started me thinking about this was Yoho himself. I took the family up to Showtime for a big OWM race a while back. We were sitting in the stands by the pit exit and could hear the pit PA system. About every 10 minutes we could hear Yoho bellowing over the PA that racers needed to bring him their receipt for purchasing 10 gallons of gas or they wouldn't be allowed on the track.
That seemed a little over the top, making everybody purchase your product or they couldn't go on the track. Since then, i've seen and read about other tracks using the same tactics.
If the racers feel the current system works, then by all means go with it. If you don't mind paying for your own purse and points fund, then don't change a thing. But if the racers feel that the pit gate money should be their contribution, and that the tracks should quit trying to nickel and dime the racers instead of getting off their butts and finding local and national sponsors for the purse and points fund, then you might want to speak up at the next drivers meeting.

[JC26]

What really started me thinking about this was Yoho himself. I took the family up to Showtime for a big OWM race a while back. We were sitting in the stands by the pit exit and could hear the pit PA system. About every 10 minutes we could hear Yoho bellowing over the PA that racers needed to bring him their receipt for purchasing 10 gallons of gas or they wouldn't be allowed on the track.
That seemed a little over the top, making everybody purchase your product or they couldn't go on the track. Since then, i've seen and read about other tracks using the same tactics.
If the racers feel the current system works, then by all means go with it. If you don't mind paying for your own purse and points fund, then don't change a thing. But if the racers feel that the pit gate money should be their contribution, and that the tracks should quit trying to nickel and dime the racers instead of getting off their butts and finding local and national sponsors for the purse and points fund, then you might want to speak up at the next drivers meeting.

The problem you're having is that most of the stuff you're saying, you have no clue about. You don't even know who you heard over the PA system. 98% of the time the guy talking over the PA is the tech inspector or the backstretch flagman who helps with the line up on occasion. Other than the drivers meeting or for a big altercation, I don't hear Yoho over the PA at all.

Which brings me to my next point, you have yet to find one OWM driver to rally around your gripes. You wanna know why? Because we actually buy the tires and the fuel and know that it's not that big of a deal when mandatory purchases are made. The price of a tire from Jay is $127.50. So whether we buy 4 a week from him away from the track or buy 4 from him for a mandatory race at the track they are the same price. Desotos tires are a few bucks more than Jay, and like I stated before, fuel is cheaper at Steel Performance by $4 for 10 gallons for Sunoco, and Desoto sells Renegade so I have no idea where to buy it at a comparable price, but it's 8$ a gallon at the track.

You won't hear the OWM guys complain about Showtime or Desoto, because we get treated fair, the payouts are excellent and they take care of us. The only drivers you're going to have side with you are Sportsman drivers. Who are coincidentally the ones who have caused this cluster f*ck of a tire situation for some modifieds who run multiple tracks.

[Matt Albee]

First, i'm not having any problem at all. You're the one that's forced to buy track products. What's more, you don't mind a bit. I'm just the guy in the stands laughing about it.
I know what Yoho looks like. He was the one talking on the PA.
I haven't found anyone to rally around my gripes. What i'm looking for is the tracks to realize what an idiotic idea it is to force mandatory gas and tire purchases by the few racers they still have left. And i think we've seen a little movement from a track or two. They realize that forcing racers to buy things they don't need and/or can't afford is just putting more race cars up on blocks every year.
I applaud you on your deep pockets, you say you don't mind spending money on whatever the tracks force you to buy. Too bad many racers aren't as well off or as well sponsored as you seem to be. And more classes than just the OWM guys are forced to buy tires and gas.
You should take up your tire grudge with the Sportsman guys. The tire situation is brought on by the tracks, the Sportsman guys don't sell tires as far as i know.
As i mentioned in the above post, if the current situation suits you and your pocketbook, stick with it and God bless. And us outsiders who have no clue will just watch and shake our heads in disbelief.

[scottgarrity07]

The problem you're having is that most of the stuff you're saying, you have no clue about. You don't even know who you heard over the PA system. 98% of the time the guy talking over the PA is the tech inspector or the backstretch flagman who helps with the line up on occasion. Other than the drivers meeting or for a big altercation, I don't hear Yoho over the PA at all.

Which brings me to my next point, you have yet to find one OWM driver to rally around your gripes. You wanna know why? Because we actually buy the tires and the fuel and know that it's not that big of a deal when mandatory purchases are made. The price of a tire from Jay is $127.50. So whether we buy 4 a week from him away from the track or buy 4 from him for a mandatory race at the track they are the same price. Desotos tires are a few bucks more than Jay, and like I stated before, fuel is cheaper at Steel Performance by $4 for 10 gallons for Sunoco, and Desoto sells Renegade so I have no idea where to buy it at a comparable price, but it's 8$ a gallon at the track.

You won't hear the OWM guys complain about Showtime or Desoto, because we get treated fair, the payouts are excellent and they take care of us. The only drivers you're going to have side with you are Sportsman drivers. Who are coincidentally the ones who have caused this cluster f*ck of a tire situation for some modifieds who run multiple tracks.

You can refer to me by name, I don't care. LOL. No need to lump my competitors in with my opinions. I don't side with Matt as much as I think the mandatory tire and fuel purchases are a moot point because almost all of the racers are going to buy them from the tracks anyway. So on one hand the requirement is not a big deal but on the other hand it really isn't necessary and IMO keeps drivers away that feel like they are forced to do it. We are somewhat in agreement on that topic. However I DO agree with Matt about entry fees being a bad thing. Me and Matt have a somewhat different view as to why it is bad though. IMO I think that an entry fee keeps more cars away than an extra advertised $ 50-100 to win draws. Just.take that "entry fee" out of the purse top to bottom. However, Matt is spot on that most of the tracks in this state don't make enough of an effort to bring in more sponsorship to help support the bottom line. It seems to be an easier (and short sighted) solution to get it from the racers.

As for the tire deal, yes, I tried to lead the effort to get us off the horrible 650/450 combination that was put together for YOUR class. Long after the OWM's had abandoned them WE (and the classes below Sportsman) were stuck with them. We did indeed ask for this R750 tire, but we never asked for you guys to be put on them too. I beleve it was Ricky Brooks who suggested these tires be used on OWM's too. You guys spoke up and said you wanted to stay on the F53 and Desoto and Showtime sided with you, the other tracks sided with Ricky. You can't blame the Sportsman guys for that. I really don't know why it's a big deal. Most of you guys pretty much stated you were going to buy 4 tires a race anyway and didn't need longer lasting tire. Also, Desoto and Showtime pay the biggest OWM purses anyway and they stayed on the F53. In addition, all the OWM guys who have ACTUALLY TURNED LAPS on the R750 like them. If you are going to buy 4 tires a race anyway, what's the big deal if you want to travel to NSS, or Auburndale or wherever for a big event and buy four and run. I don't like to see any racers be forced into a situation they are not happy with and I agree it's a crappy situation to have a different tire rule at different places, but the tire you guys like to run is being used at the two tracks where most of you guys like to run anyway. I'm sorry that's a by-product of us getting off of the 650/450's and onto the R750 but, make no mistake (like you OWM guys) I'm very happy to be off of the 650/450's. We never blamed you guys when THE TRACKS decided to take you off of the crap tires and leave us on them. Don't blame us now that the shoe is on the other foot.

[JC26]

You can refer to me by name, I don't care. LOL. No need to lump my competitors in with my opinions. I don't side with Matt as much as I think the mandatory tire and fuel purchases are a moot point because almost all of the racers are going to buy them from the tracks anyway. So on one hand the requirement is not a big deal but on the other hand it really isn't necessary and IMO keeps drivers away that feel like they are forced to do it. We are somewhat in agreement on that topic. However I DO agree with Matt about entry fees being a bad thing. Me and Matt have a somewhat different view as to why it is bad though. IMO I think that an entry fee keeps more cars away than an extra advertised $ 50-100 to win draws. Just.take that "entry fee" out of the purse top to bottom. However, Matt is spot on that most of the tracks in this state don't make enough of an effort to bring in more sponsorship to help support the bottom line. It seems to be an easier (and short sighted) solution to get it from the racers.

As for the tire deal, yes, I tried to lead the effort to get us off the horrible 650/450 combination that was put together for YOUR class. Long after the OWM's had abandoned them WE (and the classes below Sportsman) were stuck with them. We did indeed ask for this R750 tire, but we never asked for you guys to be put on them too. I beleve it was Ricky Brooks who suggested these tires be used on OWM's too. You guys spoke up and said you wanted to stay on the F53 and Desoto and Showtime sided with you, the other tracks sided with Ricky. You can't blame the Sportsman guys for that. I really don't know why it's a big deal. Most of you guys pretty much stated you were going to buy 4 tires a race anyway and didn't need longer lasting tire. Also, Desoto and Showtime pay the biggest OWM purses anyway and they stayed on the F53. In addition, all the OWM guys who have ACTUALLY TURNED LAPS on the R750 like them. If you are going to buy 4 tires a race anyway, what's the big deal if you want to travel to NSS, or Auburndale or wherever for a big event and buy four and run. I don't like to see any racers be forced into a situation they are not happy with and I agree it's a crappy situation to have a different tire rule at different places, but the tire you guys like to run is being used at the two tracks where most of you guys like to run anyway. I'm sorry that's a by-product of us getting off of the 650/450's and onto the R750 but, make no mistake (like you OWM guys) I'm very happy to be off of the 650/450's. We never blamed you guys when THE TRACKS decided to take you off of the crap tires and leave us on them. Don't blame us now that the shoe is on the other foot.

I'm not gonna arggue the entry fee, because that is what it is. Ever heard the phrase you have to spend money to make money? Well I'm sure every guy who does show up to an entry fee race and pays $50-$100 to have a shot at making $1500 to win is all a calculated risk for them. I wasn't pointing out you specifically, because there were a few others who have chimed in on the Bronson thread. But my whole stance on it, is of Matt is going to bitch and moan about something that he doesn't even have a stake or dime wrapped up in as far as buying fuel and tires goes, then how about he get out there and push for more sponsorship for the tracks? It's not hurting your pockets either way, so if he's gonna gripe, then get out there, and put advertising packages together and get sponsorships for the tracks, or just sit in the bleachers and enjoy the racing.

As far as the tires go, that was merely thrown in because I can honestly say that is a bigger problem and cost for the racers than mandatory fuel and tire purchases.

[JC26]

First, i'm not having any problem at all. You're the one that's forced to buy track products. What's more, you don't mind a bit. I'm just the guy in the stands laughing about it.
I know what Yoho looks like. He was the one talking on the PA.
I haven't found anyone to rally around my gripes. What i'm looking for is the tracks to realize what an idiotic idea it is to force mandatory gas and tire purchases by the few racers they still have left. And i think we've seen a little movement from a track or two. They realize that forcing racers to buy things they don't need and/or can't afford is just putting more race cars up on blocks every year.
I applaud you on your deep pockets, you say you don't mind spending money on whatever the tracks force you to buy. Too bad many racers aren't as well off or as well sponsored as you seem to be. And more classes than just the OWM guys are forced to buy tires and gas.
You should take up your tire grudge with the Sportsman guys. The tire situation is brought on by the tracks, the Sportsman guys don't sell tires as far as i know.
As i mentioned in the above post, if the current situation suits you and your pocketbook, stick with it and God bless. And us outsiders who have no clue will just watch and shake our heads in disbelief.

It has nothing to do with deep pockets or sponsorship. I race out of my own pocket with no sponsorship and on a budget just like the majority of the racers out there. I don't know how I can put it into perspective for you. You are talking about a very small amount of money difference that is being requested and it only happens a handful of times a year. If you had any ideas of the cost of tires and fuel, you'd see were only talking maybe $20 a race? I'm sorry, but if $100 is going to make or break you over the course of 5 races, then you don't have any business running a modified to begin with.