one thing that is included in the back gate cost is insurance for drivers and pit members and you can't bring that to the track like oil to the shop to have the guy change it for you. as a very old person I decided this year to stop living in the past. local stock car racing is what it is. a dying sport. enjoy it while you can in Florida esp, full classes and pack grandstands are gone. you could have a track that did not charge for the front gate and still no crowds. you could cut the back gate to pay insurance only to protect the track owner, still no full classes. you want to race and cut cost, then start a club and lease a track and do club races.
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Originally posted by Darren View Postone thing that is included in the back gate cost is insurance for drivers and pit members and you can't bring that to the track like oil to the shop to have the guy change it for you. as a very old person I decided this year to stop living in the past. local stock car racing is what it is. a dying sport. enjoy it while you can in Florida esp, full classes and pack grandstands are gone. you could have a track that did not charge for the front gate and still no crowds. you could cut the back gate to pay insurance only to protect the track owner, still no full classes. you want to race and cut cost, then start a club and lease a track and do club races.
sounds a bit funny....out of the fire and in the frying pan..
don62
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From what i've read on here, i think Don has a son who makes a living off of selling race tires, so i wouldn't expect un-biased info from him on this topic.
When we see drag racing, SCCA, and many other forms of racing ( truck mud racing for example ), bring in a big field of cars for every race, yet don't force racers to buy tires and gas, or pit slabs, and can bring their own products with them, that tells me the old ways in oval track don't work. I don't know if i believe oval track owners are greedy like Don does. Maybe they're greedy, maybe they're lazy, maybe they're just incompetent. But other forms of racing are bringing in the cars with their way of doing things, and oval tracks are just hanging on. Like 5 Flags who it turns out force almost all the competitors to purchase track gas according to their web site. Now that does sound like greed.
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SCCA = A Lesson?
So, as Jacko has mentioned--the SCCA boys take it for granted--they need to pay their collective way.
Gas & tires come from somewhere, but ultimately are paid for by them. And the virtually spectatorless event has to cover expenses--from the competitors.
The "get it" and are okay with it.
Maybe it is time for a short track mind shift. If the track and/or event is not sponsored, the competitors are still paying most of the tab at the back gate, and/or slab, and/or gasoline, and/or tires. It just is the way it is.
Like SCCA--it just is not as up front.
Again, weigh the cost against the winnings against how much you want to race at that venue.
Once you have made peace with it, it may be easier.
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The fuel and tire point is mute......you have to have tires and fuel to race. The racer is buying both. You have to buy tires at one of the tracks. You can't go to the tire shop on the corner and get them. Yes, you can buy race fuel at speed shops and such but it is basically the same cost unless you are buying 50 gal drums.
Both the tire manufacturer and fuel manufacturer put money into the point funds and (I think) most tracks put part of the profit from sales into the point fund also.
IF the tracks didn't have tires or fuel, everyone would bitch about that too.
Part of the mandate to purchase tires at the track was because of soaking tires for big races also. Most tracks will let you race if you are racing on old tires. You aren't running up front on old tires anyway.
IF you are a weekly racer you are not making money or breaking even. You are paying to race just like SCCA and drag racing. Most guys understand that and don't give it a second thought. If you are half smart, you create an LLC and write most of the costs off as marketing anyway.
Altere (Michael) has a great quote on his avatar thingy......I quit fishing because no one paid me when I got back to the dock......I may be paraphrasing....Racing is a hobby, it costs money. If you can't afford to race Supers anymore, race something else.....we had 3 cars at one point.....now we have one and its raced part time......we used to race 35-40 weeks a year.....now its maybe 10.
We (most on this board) grew up when you could work on your own street cars, build most of your own race cars at home or a small shop and compete, my son grew up around race cars, a race car shop and race tracks.....he has some knowledge of how to work on stuff, 99% of his friends have no idea what a 1/2" wrench is......less and less people grow up around it thus less and less people ever get into racing.....and a lot of the ones that do get into it start in a LM and if money allows are racing in ARCA or Trucks, flame out or run out of money and never race again......Not a lot of David Rogers out there any more....Short track racing will die off as we know it now and I believe become SCCA or drag racing before too long.
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Originally posted by OldSchool+ View Post
Again, weigh the cost against the winnings against how much you want to race at that venue.
Once you have made peace with it, it may be easier.Last edited by scottgarrity07; 03-12-2015, 01:39 PM.
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Originally posted by fred23 View PostThe fuel and tire point is mute......you have to have tires and fuel to race. The racer is buying both. You have to buy tires at one of the tracks. You can't go to the tire shop on the corner and get them. Yes, you can buy race fuel at speed shops and such but it is basically the same cost unless you are buying 50 gal drums.
Both the tire manufacturer and fuel manufacturer put money into the point funds and (I think) most tracks put part of the profit from sales into the point fund also.
IF the tracks didn't have tires or fuel, everyone would bitch about that too.
Part of the mandate to purchase tires at the track was because of soaking tires for big races also. Most tracks will let you race if you are racing on old tires. You aren't running up front on old tires anyway.
IF you are a weekly racer you are not making money or breaking even. You are paying to race just like SCCA and drag racing. Most guys understand that and don't give it a second thought. If you are half smart, you create an LLC and write most of the costs off as marketing anyway.
Altere (Michael) has a great quote on his avatar thingy......I quit fishing because no one paid me when I got back to the dock......I may be paraphrasing....Racing is a hobby, it costs money. If you can't afford to race Supers anymore, race something else.....we had 3 cars at one point.....now we have one and its raced part time......we used to race 35-40 weeks a year.....now its maybe 10.
We (most on this board) grew up when you could work on your own street cars, build most of your own race cars at home or a small shop and compete, my son grew up around race cars, a race car shop and race tracks.....he has some knowledge of how to work on stuff, 99% of his friends have no idea what a 1/2" wrench is......less and less people grow up around it thus less and less people ever get into racing.....and a lot of the ones that do get into it start in a LM and if money allows are racing in ARCA or Trucks, flame out or run out of money and never race again......Not a lot of David Rogers out there any more....Short track racing will die off as we know it now and I believe become SCCA or drag racing before too long.
If i show up to race at a track that has " must use track fuel and track tires " rules, and has a mandatory purchase of 5 or 10 gallons of gas and track supplied tires, how does that benefit me. I don't need any SNOKO, i have plenty left from the last race. But either i buy 5 or 10 gallons that i don't need, or i'm not allowed to race. Now that's $50 -$100 dollars or more that i didn't need to spend.
I have tires from another race track, or that i purchased from another source, that are in fine shape, but i'm required to purchase new tires because the ones i have aren't the track tire or don't have the track brand on them. So there's another $500 dollars i didn't need to spend and really couldn't afford to spend.
Now maybe i can buy gas from my local speed shop cheaper than the track sells it for. That should be my option. As Nerone mentioned about Dick Anderson, his sponsor provided his fuel. That should be his option. And if i don't even need gas, why should i be forced to buy it anyway?
Maybe the Hoosier guy would welcome racers coming straight to him for tires. Maybe racers can mail order the correct Hoosier tires for less than the track charges. That should be up to the racer. If it's easier for some guys to buy this stuff from the tracks, then they can do that.
The points fund thing is a joke. Bronson says if you want to participate in the points fund, you're required to purchase track gas and tires. But by purchasing track gas and tires, at track prices, the racers are actually paying their own points fund.
If i don't need tires or gas, i shouldn't have to buy any. And if i do need either one, i should be allowed to buy from anyone i want.
My point was that a lot of these track mandates are causing racers to just park their cars instead of racing. Not to mention pit slab fees and other nonsense fees put on the racers back. Sponsor money instead of money out of the racers pockets is what's needed. Badly needed!Last edited by Matt Albee; 03-12-2015, 02:04 PM.
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I don't see the point in bitching about anything at Desoto, Showtime, 5 Flags or even 3 Palms. These people brought everyone of these tracks back from near death and now they are either thriving or aren't on life support. All the dirt tracks left down there are doing pretty damn well, even Hendry County County. New Smyrna is one of the nicest facilities in the country and Mr Hart loves racing as much as any of us so maybe it could be better but I've never been disappointed with the show.
So, in my opinion other than Bronson or Speedworld to bitch about. Well damn 2 out of 10 Florida tracks aren't up to "standards". I'll take those odds in a bet.
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I think Albee is as looney as a toon just like the rest of you do, but when is the last time you went to a dirt track race and were required to buy their fuel and tires? If a series or track has a fuel or tire sponsor helping pay the points fund they might check to be sure you're using the right fuel or tire, but I've never been to a dirt race anywhere that makes you buy tires and fuel when you roll in the gate. What makes pavement racing so different that it needs those requirements?
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