NSS World Series Night Two Updates...

[OldSchool+]

As I recollect, Orlando Speedway used to have a big 'ol lumbering fire truck full of water that used to pull out onto the track when necessary.

Who has what seems to me to be beside the point. If none of them have adequate equipment then all of them should get it.

In this day of uber guvment regulation I cannot believe that this stuff does not have regs and inspectors. Heck, they have regs and inspectors if you run a church!

I am not certain what they have at Showtime, but I do know that Yoho put kiddie pools in the infield so that Sprint Car drivers that were on fire (with invisible alcohol burning fire) could jump into them.

Seems silly on the surface of it, but at least it was something.

[UREZ2PASS]

Everytime there is a fuel fire like this at any track, there is a group of critics that emerge from the smoke.

Let's start with the car. Why did the fuel cell rupture ? Did the car have a fire suppression system ?

[Matt Albee]

And there's always a group of indignant experts that emerge from that same smoke cloud. Human nature i guess.
Tracks don't use fire trucks as first responders because full size fire trucks are far too slow and hard to maneuver. I think if you look, you'll find that all major tracks and most sanctioning bodies use pick up trucks and either foam or another type of fire suppressing chemical. I don't know of any that use antique trucks like NSS, but at least they have one.

[Don Nerone]

All that is needed is a 250lb purple K unit and the 22gal is out.
The quesiton of who has one?? Newsmyrna had a 150lb and a 500lb unit when I left,
Orlando had a 250lb and a 500lb unit when I left,
Desoto had a 500 that I found for them.
Don hillard built the frame and David Rogers power coated the frame to make it a slide in unit.
This type of unit will put out that fire and it is should still be at the track.

don62

[Phil Jacques]

I'm not even going to spend the time reading most of these comments but I want to chime in here.

I see two glaring issues with what happened with Jordan's car.

#1 the fuel cell rupture. What fuel cell did he have? (here I go with the up here stuff) Up here, we are REQUIRED to run ATL Bladder fuel cells to help prevent a rupture. Yes, they are damn near $1000... But tell me one thing before you argue me, would you rather spend $1000 now or $30,000 after a fire? I have spent my morning reading through the fuel cell rules at most tracks and they are pretty basic and vague. Jordan got out of the car and is thankfully alright, but what if he hadn't been able to get out? Would that $1000 spent on a proper fuel cell have been worth it or not? When it comes to fire, it's truly one of the largest safety issues at the track. It doesn't happen often, but it CAN. And that possibility is enough for me to take the extra precautions to have proper systems in place.

#2 the fire crew at NSS. Seeing a guy standing there with what appears to be a garden hose in all the pictures I've seen with NO safety gear on makes me shake my head. As for the truck... Sorry, that dune buggy they have there isn't going to be capable of extinguishing a fire of that size and nature. I don't care what you have on it. (and again) up here, we have trucks at every race. Waterford is the only one without a full sized fire truck, but it's a F350 super duty loaded with a chemical system and 3 or 4" fire hose and holds 500 gallons in the tank mounted in the bed along with the jaws of life and other safety apparatus. We have had a couple fires that could have gotten very bad very quick taken care of without issue out of that F350. It doesn't always have to be a full size fire truck.

There really was no reason for that fire to happen as bad as it did. Proper equipment and proper training are key and DO mean the difference between life and death. I know every track doesn't have a big budget, but imo you can't put a price on someones life.

[cfontfan]

If you weren't at the track to see it happen then all you can do is just assume the track crews did something wrong. The car was totally up in flames before the car barely stopped and the driver hadn't even gotten out yet. This is kind of like saying Daytona Speedway has shitty fire safety crews as well because they couldn't put out the jet dryer fire with Montoya as soon as it happen. And im not sure any fuel cell bladder would of held out a bumper bar that got shoved thru the can when the car lost its brakes and backed in wide open into the wall. Either way New Smyrna still needs to work on there safety crew.

[shorttrackcar1]

well what would have happen if this car was upside down against the wall driver side ? scary thought are these guys trained at all for situations like that ?

[Matt Albee]

If you weren't at the track to see it happen then all you can do is just assume the track crews did something wrong. The car was totally up in flames before the car barely stopped and the driver hadn't even gotten out yet. This is kind of like saying Daytona Speedway has shitty fire safety crews as well because they couldn't put out the jet dryer fire with Montoya as soon as it happen. And im not sure any fuel cell bladder would of held out a bumper bar that got shoved thru the can when the car lost its brakes and backed in wide open into the wall. Either way New Smyrna still needs to work on there safety crew.

It doesn't make any difference at all to this thread if we were or weren't at the track. We're commenting on the photos that were posted. Those photos clearly show men fighting a big fire without the proper equipment.
Top quality fuel cells are very good at retaining fuel i'm sure, but obviously everything has it's limits. I know people take the foam out of fuel cells and that just increases the risk of fire and explosion.
Yes, NSS needs to work on their safety crew.

[bubba]

This was going to be a devastating fire from the moment he backed it in forward. It caught too quick and had too much fuel out for it to be extinguished before the fiberglass etc light up.

This was one of those cases where that car was going to burn. I have seen cases where 15- 20 seconds later the car lights up (Brad Heath at VSP). This was not one of those deals. There was no real margin for error and the only thing that was going to save the driver was the driver. 20-30 seconds in and this thing was not turning back.

That said, I would hope they step up the game on the fire safety as the next time, it MIGHT be the difference maker.

[Phil Jacques]

There were plenty of pictures and video from the incident to come up with a reasonable opinion from 1500 miles away. Plus the accounts of nearly 100 friends who are down there racing with different teams.

The bottom line to me is, it starts with the teams. A bladdered fuel cell would have very likely prevented 90% of that damage. Sure, a break in the line may have happened as well, but a break in a fuel line (especially when the engine is off) is not going to dump all 22 gallons of fuel on the track like this clearly did. I've seen some VERY big rear end hits at Thompson over the years which is a faster track than New Smyrna without this result.

As I said, spend $1000 now, or $30,000 later. Your choice but the risks that come with that to me are not worth it. Always protect yourself and your investment the best you possibly can especially when you know the track isn't quite up to par.

The track does need to step up their game substantially, but this issue was very much a result of inadequacies on both sides.

[UREZ2PASS]

There were plenty of pictures and video from the incident to come up with a reasonable opinion from 1500 miles away. Plus the accounts of nearly 100 friends who are down there racing with different teams.

The bottom line to me is, it starts with the teams. A bladdered fuel cell would have very likely prevented 90% of that damage. Sure, a break in the line may have happened as well, but a break in a fuel line (especially when the engine is off) is not going to dump all 22 gallons of fuel on the track like this clearly did. I've seen some VERY big rear end hits at Thompson over the years which is a faster track than New Smyrna without this result.

As I said, spend $1000 now, or $30,000 later. Your choice but the risks that come with that to me are not worth it. Always protect yourself and your investment the best you possibly can especially when you know the track isn't quite up to par.

The track does need to step up their game substantially, but this issue was very much a result of inadequacies on both sides.

Are you sure the cell did not have a bladder ? A bladder will puncture when a tube goes through it. This is also a result of the way these cars are constructed. There are a lot of pointy tubes and bars that can puncture a cell and bladder on high impact.

[Phil Jacques]

Are you sure the cell did not have a bladder ? A bladder will puncture when a tube goes through it. This is also a result of the way these cars are constructed. There are a lot of pointy tubes and bars that can puncture a cell and bladder on high impact.

As I said before I go by what I was told, but a friend of mine made his way to the car post wreck and said the car had what appeared to be a JAZ style can in it from what he could see of the remains. I would love to be wrong, I really would. I'd love to think these teams take a little more pride in what they do especially at that level. Even at the bottom in Street Stocks, I am running an ATL 100 cell. Worth the $800 for me. The likelihood of a full puncture with a bladder is much much less than a plastic container that can split wide open easily and dump fuel everywhere. A bladder puncture won't just spill 22 gallons of fuel instantly and it takes much more to puncture 3 layers of rubber and ballistic nylon like ATL cans are built with.

[UREZ2PASS]

As I said before I go by what I was told, but a friend of mine made his way to the car post wreck and said the car had what appeared to be a JAZ style can in it from what he could see of the remains. I would love to be wrong, I really would. I'd love to think these teams take a little more pride in what they do especially at that level. Even at the bottom in Street Stocks, I am running an ATL 100 cell. Worth the $800 for me. The likelihood of a full puncture with a bladder is much much less than a plastic container that can split wide open easily and dump fuel everywhere. A bladder puncture won't just spill 22 gallons of fuel instantly and it takes much more to puncture 3 layers of rubber and ballistic nylon like ATL cans are built with.

I think we need to confirm the car had a plastic cell. I find that hard to believe. Hopefully your eye witness mislead you. Care to tell us who he is so we can bash him if he was wrong. LOL !

[OldSchool+]

"If you weren't at the track to see it happen then all you can do is just assume the track crews did something wrong. The car was totally up in flames before the car barely stopped and the driver hadn't even gotten out yet."--cfontfan

Now I know fiberglass goes up pretty quickly, but the body is about melted off that car in the first shot--indicating that it had been burning for a while even when that picture was taken.

Here is the critical question for those that were in attendance: If the driver was unconscious, was the fire put out soon enough for others to have dragged him out in relatively good shape?

[UREZ2PASS]

The car had a proper fuel cell. It got punctured and leaked fuel.

Whoever said it had a plastic cell is an idiot. Probably needs to be educated on how stuff turns black when it is subjected to fire.

The car was completely burning within a minute according to the driver who is the nephew of Dale Earnhardt JR's crew chief.