Sportsman Tires

[OldSchool+]

but...why?

Scott, Don, et all...

The curious thing here to me is...why all the fuss?

Seems like it will be the same to the tracks and tire vendors whatever tire they sell.

Would it be because the tire guys give the tracks, let's say, a commision, and the more tires they sell the more jack both make?

If so, that is profoundly shortsighted and borders on being self destructive.

Tires have got to be the biggest expense for a class with motor-limited rules.

Why would you do anything to kill car count?

[Matt Albee]

Can anyone tell us what DOESN'T cause a drop in car count? I've read that the high cost/low durability of race tires is the reason for the drop in competitor numbers. I've read that it's the poor rules enforcement. I've read that it's " them big motor cars ". I've read that it's because no body calls the racers personally to invite them to the tracks. I've read that it's the diesel prices that keep the toter homes parked. I've read that racers have vacations planned so they won't be able to race. I've read that poorly managed series ( FUPS, what a dumb name for a series ) are the reason for low car counts. I've read that back gate prices are keeping the racers away. I've read that not allowing young children into the pits is keeping the racers away. And that's only a few of the reasons i've heard.

[scottgarrity07]

Old School, this all started with the 650/450 without anyone's malicious intent. If you read Patrick's post above we all switched to the 650, then added the 450 to give the OWM's the grip they wanted. Not wanting to have a bunch of different tires we all got put on them (this had worked out in the past). However, since then the OWM's have switched tires and we were stuck on the surplus of 650/450. What's disturbing is that Street Stocks and Pure Stock type cars started getting put on these also. These tires don't last. It's bad for support class racing, period. The "other" thread got momentum and Desoto, New Smyrna and Auburndale wanted to look at this issue. But we have encountered all types of resistance from Jeff the Hoosier DISTRIBUTOR (not Hoosier themselves) because in the short term, at least, he will sell less tires. Don has a family member that sells tires. I can appreciate and respect him for wanting to protect his family's interests in wanting his kin's business (and I'm not implying he makes a nickel from this) to be as profitable as possible, but he hardly "doesn't have a dog in this fight".

[OldSchool+]

Scott,

Have you had any discussions with the Hoosier company per se?

After all, ultimately they will sell less tires, it would seem.

Matt, it seems self evident: Anything that decreases weekly costs will increase car count. And vice versa.
The rest is just background noise.

[scottgarrity07]

What's funny is that Hoosier, the tire MANUFACTURER doesn't seem to care which tire they provide as long it's what suits the track's needs. They are ok with providing the long lasting 800 ribbed tire or developing the new 2040 super tire slick. Or if you want a ton of grip and a short life then they're happy providing the 450 or F40. They seem to be able to see the forest from the trees and understand what the track feels they need is what should be provided. I don't own a racetrack or sell tires so I'm in no position to try and tell the powers that be what to do. All I have tried to do from day one on this crusade is to bring the reality of the situation to light, offer opinions, listen to others opinions, offer my help to the tracks that see this as an important issue and uncover the truth when things get shady. I, like everybody, want to see racing around here improve and grow. I feel this issue matters a lot in terms of that. And while I have a personal stake in this as to how far my $ go, it is not about spending less money but spending the same amount and racing more. Much more. Also I'd like to see this for the entry level classes so that our sport can grow again. In the "other" thread I stated while the 750 would be good for me, it is not good enough to help all the support divisions. When it seems to be a foregone conclusion that we will indeed change tires, imo we shouldn't half-ass it, we should change to the tire will be good for everyone and give the best shot at growing the sport.

[OldSchool+]

Open Statement to Track Owners

As a fan, I cannot tell and do not care if they are running 14 or 16 second laps.

Nor do I care about what tires the cars have on them, or what the brand is, or if they have treads or not.

I do care if the cars are door handle to door handle (and I do care if they are not), and I do care if there are six or sixteen of them.

[Matt Albee]

Scott,

Have you had any discussions with the Hoosier company per se?

After all, ultimately they will sell less tires, it would seem.

Matt, it seems self evident: Anything that decreases weekly costs will increase car count. And vice versa.
The rest is just background noise.

Couldn't agree more......except that weekly costs are inherent in racing. Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go? Remember in the not very distant past how drivers would show up to any track that was open, sleep in their trucks in the parking lot, and race the next day for for not much more than a trophy and maybe tow money? Racers keep coming up with more and more reasons why they don't want to race and before long you've got 6 car features.
There's also plenty of evidence that racers are not coming to the tracks no matter what perks are added. Tires are a small part of the cost of racing. Many guys have 10 seasons worth of new race tires invested in the enclosed trailer they use to get to the track.
And of course there's always that damn "tracks have to make money too" thing. They make money selling tires. So what? Are the tracks supposed to drop the back injector/ejector prices, and the front injector/ejector prices, and the food prices, and the tire prices, and the fuel prices yet still keep the lights on?

[Matt Albee]

As a fan, I cannot tell and do not care if they are running 14 or 16 second laps.

Nor do I care about what tires the cars have on them, or what the brand is, or if they have treads or not.

I do care if the cars are door handle to door handle (and I do care if they are not), and I do care if there are six or sixteen of them.

I think the average fan probably cares more about close racing than lap times. Up to a point. I'm not even sure the average fan cares if it's a 6 car race or a 12 car race as long as it's a good race. I've seen a number of races for the lead between 2 or 3 cars when i wasn't even paying any attention to the rest of the field.

[OldSchool+]

But Matt, assuming the thing isn't blown up or needs a front clip, all of the expenses you name are serious enough, but if there is another $400 or so needed for tires...that may very well be the tipping point.

"[serious] costs are inherent in racing"--MA

Absolutely true, but by definition the Sportsman guys have limited pocketbooks--otherwise they would be running a new late model with a new built engine.

Just like a first car, the purchase price is not the expense, the money is in keeping it on the road.

I just cannot see "let 'em lump it" equalling a big car count.

But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Matt Albee]

But Matt, assuming the thing isn't blown up or needs a front clip, all of the expenses you name are serious enough, but if there is another $400 or so needed for tires...that may very well be the tipping point.

"[serious] costs are inherent in racing"--MA

Absolutely true, but by definition the Sportsman guys have limited pocketbooks--otherwise they would be running a new late model with a new built engine.

Just like a first car, the purchase price is not the expense, the money is in keeping it on the road.

I just cannot see "let 'em lump it" equalling a big car count.

But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

If guy's are spending $400.00 per week for race tires, they think it's necessary. And to win, maybe it is. But not everyone can afford to win, some just enjoy going fast. And i'm not so sure the racers are spending $400.00 a week on tires. And if a guy DOESN'T buy $400.00 worth of tires each week, is that the reason he's not winning or does he just use that as an excuse? As i've said before, if the racers can't afford to race, then they shouldn't. I know i could afford $400.00 a week for tires. I might bitch about it constantly, but i could afford it. Writing a check for a crate motor would be an entirely different proposition for me though.
I don't see" let um lump it" as a way to get the car counts up either, but eventually either you're going to stop complaining and go racing, or you're not. SEE POST #17. Short track oval racing is about as cheap as real racing gets. So if this is out of your league, there's not too many other options.

[Patrick Thomas 25]

I am over this whole topic, the tires cost between $520-$560 bucks depending on which place you buy them from. When you put new tires on you can expect lap times to improve between 3 and 6 tenths of a second per lap. If you want to win, which all racers do, you will have to buy tires if anybody with a decent car does, just to be able to compete with the new tires.

I pull my car on an open trailer behind an old ford truck, yes all the way to Pensacola earlier this month. My entire racing budget is spent on my racecar, and 70% of what I spend is on tires, nobody can tell me that if you let us race on a harder tire! that lasts longer that racing will not improve. My tire bill for this year was $3,360.00 and I only ran 9 races. I have never put on a set of tires for a practice night, just to answer that question before it is asked.

My crate motor is 3 years old now and it cost me less than my tire bill for this year. You do the math, the tire bill is too high for a support class.


Patrick Thomas 25

[gogame]

I say put us on the f53 slick. At least we can get a couple more nights on a set and no dam race car needs to be on a treaded tire. M.P.

[OldSchool+]

give the guy a (financial) break

Any business owners casually considering sponsoring a race car should strongly consider sponsoring Patrick Thomas.

My observation is that he races hard, but clean.

[Old Sunshine Fan]

Any business owners casually considering sponsoring a race car should strongly consider sponsoring Patrick Thomas.

My observation is that he races hard, but clean.

I totally agree....Patrick Thomas races hard, races clean, puts on a great show and deserves sponsorship to the max.... if anyone is thinking about sponsoring a race team... this one is one to invest in....you won't be disappointed........................OSF said dat.........

[scottgarrity07]

Great. That's what we need, Patrick Thomas WITH MONEY! That way he can really whip all of our asses! (You DO realize he set 3 track records his year with a legal 3 yr old Crate motor).