Accident at Bronson

[Lurkin]

A group to oversee is a GREAT idea Rhino, an internal group from inside racing. Having anyone from the State or any other Gov't agency is not. These people have NO knowledge of racing why would they be of any help?
This was a great idea last year when brought up and still a great idea.
No need to start name calling bud, you don't know me, I don't know you. I may joke, but I never resort to childish name calling.

[Matt Albee]

We don't eat rotten, mystery meat only because there's a government agency inspecting it to keep us safe. We aren't crashing thousands of airplanes head on every week because there's a government agency that regulates air space. I'd say there's a very good reason for government oversight.
Would it work in auto racing. It does in New Jersey since auto racing began. With proper and sensible track rules and track management, oversight isn't needed. But this incident at Bronson, as well as many others this year should have you wondering if maybe there needs to be a universal set of regulations concerning race track safety. Might even be time to have a national sanctioning body for short track racing. Just don't let NASCAR anywhere near it.

[Groundpounder]

We don't eat rotten, mystery meat only because there's a government agency inspecting it to keep us safe.

I'd say there's a very good reason for government oversight.

Come on, you'd eat rotten meat unless the government told you not to?

The current administration likes folks with your sense of need.

[bubba]

Come on, you'd eat rotten meat unless the government told you not to?

The current administration like folks with your sense of need.

The funny part is some people subscribe to this way of thinking instead of looking at the reality that in a capitalist society, companies are out to make a profit. Whether that comes at the expense of using leaded paint, tainted meat, you name it they will do it. Guess who your only protection from that crap is? Whether Obama, Bush, Clinton etc, its the big bad Govt who has to regulate things so greedy companies dont kill us all in the process of getting richer.

But you go ahead and blame Obammer...

[Groundpounder]

you can't teach common sense...when the government gets involved your taxes go up...if you are in the 51% anyway...

BTW leaded paint was used as a standard until dangers were discovered, not to save money...who sells tainted meat? Bubba Burgers??? (I couldn't resist...that part is a joke) I actually eat those...

[Matt Albee]

Well that was certainly predictable wasn't it. A thread about race track tragedy goes into full FOX news hysteria mode over government involvement in racing instead of a discussion concerning rules and regulations for short track racing safety.
So back on topic, short tracks in America are often ( not always but often ) run by people who aren't ignoring safety, they're just not paying proper attention to it. And in many cases just not thinking things through.
International auto racing has several sanctioning bodies, ACCUS and FIA for instance. Do a little research and see how those organizations actually work. I'm not so sure that would be a bad thing for short track racing. In fact, i think it might be a good idea for a sanctioning body to be formed for Florida, just for short track racing in this state. Tracks become members, members decide how races and tracks should be run from a safety point of view. All member tracks join forces to buy track insurance and to train track personnel in safety and proper procedures. Not to promote racing or races like FUPS ( what a dumb name for a series ) but to oversee track procedures and safety state wide.
Yeah, i know. When pigs fly.

[Matt Albee]

you can't teach common sense...when the government gets involved your taxes go up...if you are in the 51% anyway...

BTW leaded paint was used as a standard until dangers were discovered, not to save money...who sells tainted meat? Bubba Burgers??? (I couldn't resist...that part is a joke) I actually eat those...

I'm not surprised.

[Groundpounder]

All tracks that I know of use starter stands above the track. On track flagging went out with Bill Vanderwater and Pat Vidan. Why was he on the track?

[katlizy]

All tracks that I know of use starter stands above the track. On track flagging went out with Bill Vanderwater and Pat Vidan. Why was he on the track?

He was in the infield... It could have been anyone as we all know the infield always has someone in it.. Photogs, tow drivers, misc officials, drivers

[rhinoracing11]

This Saturday at Bubba Speedway, they are passing around a helmet for Buds family.
Wasnt trying to insult Lurkin.Just a healty debate...
Rob

[flvideo]

My 2 cents!

Fan races in Florida have all ways been flagged from the infield except I think Sunshine was flagged from the starters stand. Even back in the Sunshine days there was some one on the infield. I can remember in the early 80's Desoto had a infield flagman on the front straight every race and I saw some pretty close calls too. My wife used to shoot video for me and she stood in the X and shot and she come close a few times. I remember My oldest boy ws shooting for me one time and he was to one side of the X among wreckers and a car came off the track and bumped him by the time it got to him it was slow enough that no damage was done. So whats the answer? John Put Jersey barriers around the track and the drivers complained about tearing up their cars on an infield wall. Fan races don't seem to be common much any more. I hate Bud got hit but it could have been anyone. I saw a car come off the track and run over an ambulance one time another came off and hit a back hoe. What is the answer???

[Matt Albee]

The answer is this. No body should ever be in a position that race cars can get to them. Not every accident can be planned for of course, and some incidents can't be avoided. The possibility of a car getting into the grandstands for instance. I don't know how you would insure that could never happen.
But tracks need to rethink safety. What on Earth would a flagman and announcer need to be in the infield for? I question wreckers and track personnel ( along with trucks and tractors ) being in the infield. They all need to be positioned outside the track so that they remain as safe as possible, and just as important, so that racers don't compound a harmless spin by crashing into ambulances or track cleanup equipment. Make designated areas for safety and cleanup people outside the track and cut openings in the wall to give them quick access. There's really no reason that safety and cleanup people can't be stationed in 2 different locations outside the track.
As for tracks that have their pit areas in the infield, i don't think that's a very good idea to begin with. It cuts down the fans view of the track. But there are walls protecting the folks in the pits from the racing surface. But even that doesn't always stop disasters. I recall years ago reading about Dick Anderson being crushed by a tumbling race car while he was standing in the pits.

[Old Sunshine Fan]

As a Retired National Safety Director, I see so many things I view as "Un-safe" during my travel's to different race tracks here in Fl..... people in the infields is top on my list.... people hanging on the side/top of wreckers is another....track employees rushing out to wrecks before all action is stopped is another...no locking device on gate between fans and track....crappy bleachers, vehicles parked in the infields, driver securement/helmets not checked......school buses without roll cages and proper driver restraints....fans standing along walk-way during actual race and/or at fence due to accident on track......the list goes on and on....

We (as a racing community) need to appoint someone to travel around to different tracks....observe operations...perform audits and submit to track management a written evaluation of said observations.... it would be up to the track management to implement suggested safety measures.....

The audit form could be separated into three sections.... Fan Stands / Track Area / Pit Area.... the same form could be used for all tracks that wish to particapate.... the written evaluation would be supplied ONLY to the track involved.

That's my story and I'm stickin to it..............OSF

[paxmelanoleuca]

Two cents on this debate (prob. not worth even that).

On some level this debate about regulation is pointless. Bronson has rules prohibiting track workers from going on the track. Bud and the announcer broke that rule when going out there.

Just because rules exist doesn't mean people won't bend them when possible. I mean, speedlimits are the rule, but we all bend them from time to time, right?

What happened out there was pretty awful, for sure, but it wasn't because track managers didn't have a policy. It was because Bud and the announcer thought they were good enough to get away with breaking them. Whether regulation comes from a sanctioning bodies, government organizations, or track managers, obeying those rules is going to be up to drivers, employees, and fans.

As long as getting close to race cars is exciting and macho (and I think it always will be, otherwise what in the heck are any of us doing here), some people are always going to get too close...

It's a terrible thing, and a terrible loss to the racing community, but as long as there IS a racing community there are always going to be some members who take things a little closer to the edge than others, and there will always be some who go too close...

[Boneman]

We need to appoint someone to travel around to different tracks.....

Ok big boy, you are hired. I have no doubt that you would provide a useful service. The problem is that I can't imagine many track operators wanting to hear about it.

You would certainly be a massive improvement over the idea of government intervention. Since we are all on our best behavior, I'll only say that inviting more government oversight would be an extremely unwise choice to volunteer for.