The Perfect Class of Racecar

[OldSchool+]

Decided that we had wandered off the OSW thread far enough, but the latest switchback kind of deserved it's own thread.

Phil--Respect that you are familiar with two types of racecar, also respect your "insider information" on the state of the cost of racing.

So--If we could start with a new sheet of paper, what would "The Perfect Racecar Class" look like?

Am thinking good looking bodies, limited motors and tires, and calling it "Southern Late Models" or similar.

Run them every week and as far as the locals go--they ARE late models.

Interestingly, this looks a lot like a Sportsman car to me--yet they do not have a big draw (yet).

Why is that? What could be done to cheaply boost the power and simultaneously cut tire costs--and provide Hobby Stock type door banging racing?

There is always the possibility I am alone in left field--apologies in advance if that is the case.

[Phil Jacques]

To me, the Sportsman is the perfect "average joe" racecar that pretty much anyone can afford. Scott will likely agree with me... Multiple chassis from OEM G-Metric to Perimeter and straight rail can and are used with success by all. There is an open engine option and a crate engine option that both seem to be competitive with each other. The bodies all are unique which is great for fans because the open nature of the body rules allow creativity which can really get the fans interest up because they can chose the "coolest" looking car and cheer for them. Too many divisions out there now are very "cookie cutter" as I call them. They all look the same. That can get boring for some.

I only am able to go by what I have been told on this, but I think one of the things holding back a lot of divisions is unfair or lazy tech or just the lack there of. As a racer, I want to feel that I am on equal ground with everyone else I am racing against. If I feel that people are being allowed to "slide" on infractions at certain tracks, I may go elsewhere or park my car. I also think a lot of cars stay home on a weekly basis and only run when they can afford due to tire costs and fuel costs. If as in my post in the other thread, there was a stricter tire rule, (6 new at the beginning of the season and 2 per week after with maximum of 12 in your operational inventory) It would really help with weekly costs and help the little guy be more competitive.

Just my .02 as always but I feel very strongly that FL has THE single best division of racecar in the entire country right now, The Sportsman...

[Phil Jacques]

Quite honestly, I am building a FL sportsman up here. Plan to bring it down for the World Series week if I am not already moved back down there by then which I hope to be the case. When I heard FUPS fell apart, I was actually rather disappointed... I really think if the Sportsman division got a solid touring series together that ran 10 races per year which many could afford to do that may be on a tighter budget, maybe once a month from January to October, it could draw large numbers of cars. Would have to have it's own self contained series utilizing it's own officials, tech steward, race director etc imo. We have a Mini Stock tour up here that started small with 15 cars per race and is now drawing 35-45 cars per race and they only start 26 and they run based on the same idea of a short season spread out for affordability. I would elect Scott Garrity for President of the Series

[OldSchool+]

I feel that what we had in the '60's, both at the local levels and at Cup (excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, Grand National!) level was door to door racing.

The cars lent themselves to it, as did the tracks--and that is what got us (well, us old guys) hooked.

It may be why today's youth are just not interested.

In the old days, model trains were cool because they moved. Stock cars much cooler because of the constant framming.

Now the &^%$ phone is providing instant gratification and the racing is...

NOT ALWAYS, of course, but enough. Boring shows + high cost...are we really suprised?


ps--If someone would re-pop '64 chevelles that would "make" me happy!

[Phil Jacques]

I feel that what we had in the '60's, both at the local levels and at Cup (excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, Grand National!) level was door to door racing.

The cars lent themselves to it, as did the tracks--and that is what got us (well, us old guys) hooked.

It may be why today's youth are just not interested.

In the old days, model trains were cool because they moved. Stock cars much cooler because of the constant framming.

Now the &^%$ phone is providing instant gratification and the racing is...

NOT ALWAYS, of course, but enough. Boring shows + high cost...are we really suprised?


ps--If someone would re-pop '64 chevelles that would "make" me happy!

Well if you want to get onto the subject of boring racing and cup... Big Bar, Soft Spring setups have RUINED racing... Give me a conventionally set up big spring car ANY DAY! Don't get me wrong, SLM cars and PLM etc are cool and can be fun to watch at times, but if you look at the divisions with the best side by side racing 9 times out of 10 they are a conventional big spring car. I do believe that some guys race with their wallet in mind which also causes some of the boring racing. They may not be willing to take the risk because of the impact it may have on them financially should something as simple as cutting a tire happen.

It SEEMS, though I have only been to OSW and NSS personally, that most of these tracks in FL are one groove bottom feeder tracks. Stafford here use to be like that and over the past two years the track has been treating the high groove with something sticky. Not sure if it's coke syrup or vht or what, but I noticed it a few weeks ago in practice that the lack of grip up there is not as severe as it use to be. There has been quite a bit of high side passing at Stafford as of late which is a relatively flat 1/2 mile for those not familiar.

Would be cool to see something like that used in FL to aid in high groove racing.

[dd38]

There is a high/2nd groove at Speed World. At least there use to be. Back 3-4 years ago we won our fair share of races in my modified (and almost the championship by 1 position after not running the first 6 races. Work related injury to the driver prevented him from racing that night.) passing on the high side. We at the time we found a set up that worked. Don't know if it would work now, but there is a high groove out there somewhere.

[Boneman]

There are no one groove tracks, there just are not enough two groove drivers. Any track can have a good door to door race, and I've seen them everywhere at some point.

Lots of guys are followers, but only a small percentage are passers. Watch Dave Steele in a sprint for example.

[Phil Jacques]

Wait till I get down there... I LOVE the high side! While everyone else is bottled up down low, go around em on the outside! It's not hard to set your car up for the high side, you just gotta have the balls to take the chance to do so!

[Boneman]

The perfect class? It needs to be open wheeled because I don't like banging out fenders and hanging noses. I'm past the point of dealing with junkyard parts, so it needs to be a purpose built racecar. Powerful engines, but that are durable and inexpensive. Tires that perform, but that also last a long time. Sounds a lot like a mini sprint to me. I wish those cars ran on pavement too.

I love driving sprints, but they are a lot of maintenance, and are not a budget class. It doesn't take that much money to keep them running, but everything on them is expensive, and crash repair can be a real burden.

[OldSchool+]

Boneman,

What about utilizing old sprint car chassis for kind of a modified/sprint car deal?

The bodies could look like '60's Modifieds, no wings, junkyard motor, relatively narrow tires.

[scottgarrity07]

To me Sportsman is the perfect class of racecar (but I have to admit I am biased). The only thing hurting the class right now are the tires and tracks scheduling big races on top of each other and at the last minute. As far as tires go I think NSS may have come up with the solution (using their Pro Late rule). If we were restricted to 2 tires per race, that would help. The logistics if impounding like NSS does for PLM would be too much though. Also, I believe the tires we are on now are lousy. A compromise that might work would be to run the RS tire (Hoosier 650) all the way around the car, 2 stickers a week max.

On the subject of a series, I will tell you this. I don't want to be President because of a conflict of interest. I'm having waaaaaaay too much fun right now to hang up my helmet. BUT, I helped a lot with the Sportsman Challenge Series that never got going and I gave FUPS a lot of info from the SCS fo help get them off the ground before that went belly up due to poor decisions and a power struggle. Thing is, initially, the support from competitors was great. Over 20 cars ran the first 3 events before things went south. A new series would need to be run by somebody stable, like NSS or Desoto, start off small between maybe those two tracks and, most importantly, follow the blueprint of the old Southern Sportsman Series, which was wildly successful. The man that needs to be brought on board to help get things going is Scott Jackman. I've run myself ragged the past few years trying to help get the Series going and everything has failed. That being said, if someone were to step forward, I'd be more than willing to help get things off the ground (and run every race too!)

[Phil Jacques]

All you need is a simple rules package comprised of just a few rules to make a bad ass division.

4412 Carb (must fit track gauges)

358ci max engine with 10:1 max compression and Steel OEM heads

8" treaded racing tire with 76" Max treadwidth measured at outside bulge

1 1/4" max sway bar size OEM only (no 3 pc)

Mufflers mandatory (96db max) must be pointed at the ground with turndowns

3.5" rideheight minimum

3000lb overall weight with 57.5% left side weight

6"x64" Spoiler MAX allowed

NO COILOVERS, NO WINGS, NO SIDEBOARDS.


Thats my idea of a simple division! lol

[OldSchool+]

Sounds good, Phil!

Is the 76 inch wide tire one or all four added together?

[Phil Jacques]

Sounds good, Phil!

Is the 76 inch wide tire one or all four added together?

lol sorry, 76" outside bulge to outside bulge.

[egspeedway]

I am encouraged by the fact that no one is suggesting crate motors as they are not cheaper in the long run than a locally built steel head motor.