5/10 Ambulance ride for another kid

[Lurkin]

This is probably one of the best threads I've ever seen on here!

[Frasson118]

Maybe some of the people that NEED to know this are watching, and have the power & common sense to make it change.

Just because its 'up North thinking', doesn't make it the wrong thing to do.

The tracks up there have done it the right way for 40 years.... It's time for Florida to do the same.

[Phil Jacques]

I am going to do my best to see to it that something is done to change this somehow so that there is a fully equipped Fire Truck and Ambulance on site at every track across the state of Florida for every weekly event. Don't care how it has to happen. I will figure out a way... I know enough people in FL that I should be able to get through somehow. The safety of the racer is of utmost importance. We are out here risking our safety and lives (whether track owners want to believe that or not) to put on a show for the fan. Without the racer, there is no Race Track.

[Frasson118]

Raise the admission price, both front & back gates by $1.00, with the EXPRESS written disclaimer that the extra dollar goes directly towards having an ambulance on site. I doubt there would be very many people that would complain if they knew that $1.00 is a small price to pay for a service that you, or a loved one might need tonight.
For every dollars brought in OVER the cost of full-blown emergency services, create a fund to purchase other safety items as they can be afforded.

ONE dollar, per week, per person, could eliminate ANY reason why NOT to go the safest route.

But be upfront & honest of where that money REALLY goes. I'm as sceptic as anyone when it comes to gouging anyone for an extra dollar if it isn't going to the right purpose.

[Lurkin]

Not one person would complain? Don't kid yourself.

[Frasson118]

OK Lurkin.... ya got me. Of COURSE someone would find a way to bitch & complain...!

It shouldn't take the fans to correct it, but it does need correcting however it happens.

[Osmosis Jones]

I think it's funny....

....when I hear people say they won't race at a track that has sub par medical and firefighting equipment on hand.

NOT ONCE! have I ever witnessed anyone parking their racer or boycotting a track when theory suddenly became reality. I've been to dozens of tracks and seen the complete spectrum of track's levels of service. From pickup trucks with water extinguishers to off duty FIRE/EMS personnel in a local departments reserve units to full-blown, trained and certified safety professionals whose actual JOB is track safety.

AND STILL NEVER SEEN A RACER STAND ON HIS LOFTY PRINCIPLES AND REFUSE TO PULL ONTO THE TRACK.

We always seem to gravitate to these types of discussions every time somebody gets hurt or killed during participation in what is by definition, a dangerous and exciting sport. Hell, half the time I can't believe insurance companies even bother with underwriting race tracks. Sooner or later the odds catch up and tragedy strikes. It happens. It also happens on the roads leading to and from the track. It happens at the restaurants we eat at AFTER the races. Sometimes tragedies happen right in our own back yards.
My question is this: Where are those first responders and ambulances and EMT's and firefighters then?
The answer: The same place they were when the races were going on. At their stations or in their rigs enroute to a call or returning from the previous call OR sitting in a diner trying to get some food before they get that call from dispatch telling them to respond to the track for some dummy who ran a perfectly good vehicle into an intersection and collided with another vehicle while blood-thirsty fans cheered them on. And, just like the previous call at the intersection in town where a little old lady had run the red light and t-boned a pickup truck with 6 teenagers in it, causing them to flip and roll into a telephone pole requiring a lengthy extrication operation......they will don their gear and break out whatever tools they will need to remove that race car from around the driver.

Emergency Medical Technician (Basic)
An EMT-B
Lets look at that for a second.
An EMT is a person who has been trained in the basics of being a first responder, effective CPR and precious little more. This is called Basic Life Support (BLS) techniques. An EMT cannot push life saving drugs via an intravenous (IV) line (that's a PARAMEDICS job) nor is he trained to observe and decipher what an EKG readout means (even though it's not hard and most EMT's do) and to respond accordingly with what is called Advanced Life Support (ALS) treatment. Again, that LIABILITY tumbles up to the Paramedic level.

MOST firefighters working today are at least EMT-B level. Some are even Paramedics.
For some reason, most tracks' insurance riders mandate a minimum requirement of having an EMT on hand during events. TRANSPORT is and has ALWAYS been another issue entirely. In most counties, all patient transport is performed strictly by that counties ambulance service as THEY are the only licensed and certified Paramedics and EMT's that are recognized by the Medical Director. Who, after all is said and done, is the actual AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) for all medical calls...INCLUDING the ones that occur at the local crash em' up track.


ALL THIS SAID.....those folks who are there working as "track rescue" are a secondary safety net for racers and the people in attendance. We are all responsible for our own well-being and safekeeping. If we choose to strap into an 800 HP, mechanical beast and rolled over the wall and into a race with 20 other beasts......I'd say we just signed our own little "hold harmless" agreement. If I haven't made sure that I'm as safe as I think I need to be, then shame on me.
At that point, anything more that the track does is a plus.



Okay...I'm getting tired. If I get time I'll ramble some more tomorrow. I have to get up early and play Firefighter/EMT at work.

[Phil Jacques]

....when I hear people say they won't race at a track that has sub par medical and firefighting equipment on hand.

NOT ONCE! have I ever witnessed anyone parking their racer or boycotting a track when theory suddenly became reality. I've been to dozens of tracks and seen the complete spectrum of track's levels of service. From pickup trucks with water extinguishers to off duty FIRE/EMS personnel in a local departments reserve units to full-blown, trained and certified safety professionals whose actual JOB is track safety.

AND STILL NEVER SEEN A RACER STAND ON HIS LOFTY PRINCIPLES AND REFUSE TO PULL ONTO THE TRACK.

We always seem to gravitate to these types of discussions every time somebody gets hurt or killed during participation in what is by definition, a dangerous and exciting sport. Hell, half the time I can't believe insurance companies even bother with underwriting race tracks. Sooner or later the odds catch up and tragedy strikes. It happens. It also happens on the roads leading to and from the track. It happens at the restaurants we eat at AFTER the races. Sometimes tragedies happen right in our own back yards.
My question is this: Where are those first responders and ambulances and EMT's and firefighters then?
The answer: The same place they were when the races were going on. At their stations or in their rigs enroute to a call or returning from the previous call OR sitting in a diner trying to get some food before they get that call from dispatch telling them to respond to the track for some dummy who ran a perfectly good vehicle into an intersection and collided with another vehicle while blood-thirsty fans cheered them on. And, just like the previous call at the intersection in town where a little old lady had run the red light and t-boned a pickup truck with 6 teenagers in it, causing them to flip and roll into a telephone pole requiring a lengthy extrication operation......they will don their gear and break out whatever tools they will need to remove that race car from around the driver.

Emergency Medical Technician (Basic)
An EMT-B
Lets look at that for a second.
An EMT is a person who has been trained in the basics of being a first responder, effective CPR and precious little more. This is called Basic Life Support (BLS) techniques. An EMT cannot push life saving drugs via an intravenous (IV) line (that's a PARAMEDICS job) nor is he trained to observe and decipher what an EKG readout means (even though it's not hard and most EMT's do) and to respond accordingly with what is called Advanced Life Support (ALS) treatment. Again, that LIABILITY tumbles up to the Paramedic level.

MOST firefighters working today are at least EMT-B level. Some are even Paramedics.
For some reason, most tracks' insurance riders mandate a minimum requirement of having an EMT on hand during events. TRANSPORT is and has ALWAYS been another issue entirely. In most counties, all patient transport is performed strictly by that counties ambulance service as THEY are the only licensed and certified Paramedics and EMT's that are recognized by the Medical Director. Who, after all is said and done, is the actual AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) for all medical calls...INCLUDING the ones that occur at the local crash em' up track.


ALL THIS SAID.....those folks who are there working as "track rescue" are a secondary safety net for racers and the people in attendance. We are all responsible for our own well-being and safekeeping. If we choose to strap into an 800 HP, mechanical beast and rolled over the wall and into a race with 20 other beasts......I'd say we just signed our own little "hold harmless" agreement. If I haven't made sure that I'm as safe as I think I need to be, then shame on me.
At that point, anything more that the track does is a plus.



Okay...I'm getting tired. If I get time I'll ramble some more tomorrow. I have to get up early and play Firefighter/EMT at work.

As I said previously, Up here it is a REQUIREMENT by law that an ambulance be on scene. I sent texts to many of the local big name drivers I know and every one of them came back and said they would wait for an ambulance rather than take the risk of one not being there if needed... You guys down there have been bread to believe it's okay not to have one on scene, I would park my car on the trailer and sit in the stands before I get on that track without what I and many others believe to be proper safety equipment on site. We take it for granted until we are the ones who need it. What if it was your son or daughter in need of an immediate transport where seconds count? Where would you stand then?

Your argument about the same thing could happen in your own back yard or the roads on the way to the track is completely irrelevant. A race track is a private business. Therefore, they are providing a service. It is their responsibility to provide the safest environment possible for all competitors which includes having adequate Fire and Safety personel and equipment on site. Just having an EMT on site to me, is far from enough. I doubt any on site emt/paramedic is equipped with all the proper tools that would find in an ambulance as was mentioned earlier. Can they start an IV if needed? Do they have an AED should that issue arise?

When I strap into my car any given Thursday Friday or Saturday night, I have confidence in my facility that if something were to happen, I would receive the best and most immediate care humanly possible. The release we sign at the gate is a waiver to remind us of the dangers and free the track from liability in case of injury. It does NOT release them from responsibility.

[Phil Jacques]

Here's another question... Do the tracks have the Jaws of Life on site? Anyone know? In the event of a neck or back injury, it's best to lift a driver straight up out of the car if they are unable to get out under their own power. twisting them and turning them to get them through the window involuntarily can only hurt them more and cause more problems... This is something that having a properly equipped fire/rescue truck on site can also help in addition to properly trained and equipped emts and paramedics. Are the tracks equipped with proper backboards for such an incident? How about neck braces?

Trauma can happen at any second at the track. The grim reality is, it could be any one of us at any moment. Preparedness saves lives. I'm not gonna keep preaching this. Argue me all you want with your own little convoluted beliefs trying to justify why it's okay to not have an ambulance and firetruck on scene. Doesn't bother me.

[egspeedway]

I was intrigued by Wingers comments about heart attacks. I also appreciate Jacques passion on this subject. Where am I going with this? If you culled all of the EMT, fire, and safety issues into a requirement few if any short tracks could handle the over head. The issue about cardiac care where there is a crowd is not just racing but all sporting events and could extend to charity and community activities. This being said what I fear more than a fire or a heart attack is the possibility of the legislature looking at these issues and taking it upon themselves to "solve" the problem. I can assure you only the tracks with national interest level events could foot the bill.

[Phil Jacques]

I was intrigued by Wingers comments about heart attacks. I also appreciate Jacques passion on this subject. Where am I going with this? If you culled all of the EMT, fire, and safety issues into a requirement few if any short tracks could handle the over head. The issue about cardiac care where there is a crowd is not just racing but all sporting events and could extend to charity and community activities. This being said what I fear more than a fire or a heart attack is the possibility of the legislature looking at these issues and taking it upon themselves to "solve" the problem. I can assure you only the tracks with national interest level events could foot the bill.

Please elaborate on "only the tracks with national interest level events could foot the bill" I am not understanding this statement or where you are going with it and do not want to mistake what you are saying.

As far as cardiac care... Longtime Thompson competitor Jimmy Smith suffered a MAJOR heart attack in his car in the pit area at the 2013 Icebreaker. Crews were on scene right away with AED trying to save him. Sadly he did not survive but the crews were able to be right there with proper life saving tools.

My point is some tracks are relatively close to the dispatch point and some are fairly far.

I understand the financial standpoint. For an ambulance and a firetruck, it could cost the tracks $2500 per night extra which is huge in the struggling economy we live in.

I am going to do some research on some stuff and talk to some people. There has to be a way we can help the tracks to help us racers without financially burying the fans, the tracks or the drivers.

[sprint racer]

EVAC Ambulance on site

On March 26, 2014, Eagle Jet Top Gun Sprint Series posted the following on their web site:
Eagle Jet Top Gun Sprints would like to thank Rick Gabor with Eagle Jet International for making possible to now have a fully equipped and staffed Advance Life Support, State Licensed EVAC Ambulance at every Eagle Jet Top Gun Sprint race in 2014. The standby ambulance will be committed to cover each night"s races.

Mr. Gabor and the series felt the need to have the EVAC Ambulance on site for each race event was long overdue, but truly hope that this service will never be needed to be used.

[Phil Jacques]

On March 26, 2014, Eagle Jet Top Gun Sprint Series posted the following on their web site:
Eagle Jet Top Gun Sprints would like to thank Rick Gabor with Eagle Jet International for making possible to now have a fully equipped and staffed Advance Life Support, State Licensed EVAC Ambulance at every Eagle Jet Top Gun Sprint race in 2014. The standby ambulance will be committed to cover each night"s races.

Mr. Gabor and the series felt the need to have the EVAC Ambulance on site for each race event was long overdue, but truly hope that this service will never be needed to be used.

That would honestly be the best way to get this done for all tracks. Some sort of sponsorship to cover the cost. I just really think it would be a great benefit to the track for drivers and fans alike.

We would still need to deal with the issue of fire crews. I've seen a few that were good such as NSS and OSW and a few that didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground which will remain nameless. Unlike the Ambulance issue, there is no state regulation for a proper firetruck up here. Though most do have them on site, the Waterford Speedbowl is one that does not have your typical fire engine though they do have a well equipped Pickup which has a chemical fire suppression system in the bed as well as many extinguishers, jaws of life and other tools needed. Something such as that could serve well at most tracks in FL that I have seen. Some already do a nice job with their fire crews also.

[Lurkin]

Right or wrong it is about the cost, and most places are barely keeping their heads below water. Robert Hart told me that he has lost money on the racetrack for the last several years and I believe him. So, to put it in perspective business wise, here's one of the more wealthy track operators who OWNS the place outright (I assume) and has what has been agreed upon in this thread as one of the safest tracks. So how is someone who leases or rents to own suppose to come up with another 2500 a night when they're not making much, if any and in my opinion do it for the love of the sport just as we all do.
I'm not saying they shouldn't have to and of course it would be ideal and I don't think that anyone can argue that it wouldn't be safer to have a fully functioning and staffed ambulance, that can transport, onsite. But what do you propose the track owners do to fund it? To move this issue forward takes money, so what do you propose?
In my native, inbred, opinion Osmosis is right that what WE can do is make sure WE have the best of everything in personal protective equipment. By the way, it wasn't always this way "down here", there used to be fully stocked and staffed ambulances at most tracks.

[egspeedway]

Please elaborate on "only the tracks with national interest level events could foot the bill" I am not understanding this statement or where you are going with it and do not want to mistake what you are saying.

As far as cardiac care... Longtime Thompson competitor Jimmy Smith suffered a MAJOR heart attack in his car in the pit area at the 2013 Icebreaker. Crews were on scene right away with AED trying to save him. Sadly he did not survive but the crews were able to be right there with proper life saving tools.

My point is some tracks are relatively close to the dispatch point and some are fairly far.

I understand the financial standpoint. For an ambulance and a firetruck, it could cost the tracks $2500 per night extra which is huge in the struggling economy we live in.

I am going to do some research on some stuff and talk to some people. There has to be a way we can help the tracks to help us racers without financially burying the fans, the tracks or the drivers.

What I am saying is that Daytona Homestead Sebring and Gainesville would be able to provide proper safety and rescue equipment if legislation was enacted addressing all of the wants and wishes we have covered. Ergo the local track is doomed.