5/10 Ambulance ride for another kid

[Phil Jacques]

What would the cost be, to have a ambulance and fire truck at the track from 3:00 to midnight on a Saturday. Is it even possible? I do not know enough about the medical personal at either of the tracks, to judge weather or not it is adequate or not?....Vince Patola

I contacted one of the local tracks here and it costs them $1500 for the evening to have an ambulance on site. I assume it may not be a whole lot less down there.

My whole argument came from a general observation. If they have ample equipment for fire, that's great. If they have a certified EMT and equipment on site, that's even better. But the presence of an ambulance can be huge. Why wait 30 minutes for transport when you could be there in 15 with one on site. It just baffles me how a law could prevent this. Sure it's an additional cost. I get that, and I get the economy is WAY different down there... I lived there for 14 years, I know! lol But how can you put a price on a life if the situation arises. It's just a preventative measure more than ever. Maybe you will never need the transport, but it sure would be nice to have if it's needed right? As I said, seconds count. I had a drag crash at Orlando Speedworld back in 2006 that left me pretty beat up, I had an immediate transport that day which I was grateful for. Sure, nothing MAJOR was wrong... But what if I had punctured a lung somehow, or had internal bleeding? This is my point. Seconds count. It's a ridiculous law whatever law it is. It needs to be changed.

[egspeedway]

The argument over emts vs. ambulances is really a question of preference. I would rather have trained people attend to me which the ambulance can't. Some time ago I asked tracks to respond as if their insurance even required an ambulance. None responded so I guess they don't. I for one am more concerned with adequate fire equipment. I witnessed Marion Edwards tragic accident at NSS. There was no usable equipment and I never attended another event put on by Julian Kline.

[Phil Jacques]

The argument over emts vs. ambulances is really a question of preference. I would rather have trained people attend to me which the ambulance can't. Some time ago I asked tracks to respond as if their insurance even required an ambulance. None responded so I guess they don't. I for one am more concerned with adequate fire equipment. I witnessed Marion Edwards tragic accident at NSS. There was no usable equipment and I never attended another event put on by Julian Kline.

As far as EMT vs Ambulance, I don't know how FL law works, but all drivers of Ambulances up here to my knowledge are licensed and equipped EMTs. I went to tracks as a spectator in FL for 10 of the 14 years I lived there so I never got into the competitor safety aspect until I started building a Sportsman for NSS/OSW and Desoto to bring down when I move back next summer.

Fire is a big problem also and prevention is much more complicated. You can mandate Bladder Cells such as ATL all day long, but then you have the incident at NSS earlier this year or late last year where I believe it was a SLM pounded the wall and it broke the fuel pump off the engine causing a massive fire.

I never intended to sit here and bash any of the facilities as my words were twisted to sound like. My initial post was to bring up a point.

[Frasson118]

Somewhere around 2000, a buddy & I were sitting in the stands at Volusia when he appeared to have suffered a heart attack. I ran to the tower, who dispatched the ambulance & crew to the stands where they stabilized him and readied for transport.

As I followed that ambulance into the hospital in Deland, incouldnt help but think how far it really is between the track & hospital. If we'd have had to wait for an ambulance to come from Deland in the first place, it would've been close to a hour of time.

That is TOO much when someone's life is on the line.
The races were halted until the replacement ambulance arrived, which we passed in the way to Deland.

We were both damn thankful that it was a ONE WAY job to transport him, not having to wait for the 'transport' to arrive. They were already on hand, and had things under control in less than 5 minutes.

[Phil Jacques]

My point exactly. Thank you. Glad your friend turned out well. Seconds count. Anyone who thinks otherwise might as well have their grave marker picked out.

[Frasson118]

Just to clarify, when I said 'close to an hour', I was referring to round-trip time. It's realistically about 30 minutes each way.

[egspeedway]

Just to clarify, when I said 'close to an hour', I was referring to round-trip time. It's realistically about 30 minutes each way.

And a lot of it is 2 lane road. I too am glad for your good out come but I am still waiting to have a track to respond regarding their insurance requirements. At this point the only thing I know is it costs more to go in the pits.

[bubba]

Typically an ambulance wouldn't have to come from a hospital though, they are staged around the county/area they are in charge of covering. Ideally, you get one that is close to you when the problem arises. It would be nice to have alot of things but, onsite EMT and fire suppression tools and teams are a must.

Transport could be better in some circumstances, but typically what i have seen is by the time they have extricated the driver safely - the ambulance has already been dispatched and is close. They dont like to yank a guy out of there if he is hurt seriously without stabilizing him and maybe cutting some roll bars anyhow.

No doubt that it would be better to have transport capability onsite at all times, but it isnt going to happen with legislation and costs.

I swear i remember them landing the medivac chopper at NSS on the front stretch one time.

[Frasson118]

I think I see where some of the confusion is coming from.

If the EMT's are on site, they can do their thing, but not allowed to transport. An actual ambulance CAN transport, but I'm sure is much more expensive.

It depends who is hired for the job....

I can see where a Track Ambulance is not allowed to do the transportation, but if it was fully licensed one in the first place, they could do it.

And is absolutely NOT the law in Volusia County, as both NSS and Volusia are in the same county. VSP has (had) the full-blown crew on hand, while NSS has EMT's, but relies on outside transport.

NSS CAN get quick response from local hospitals & ambulances that VSP doesn't have access to.

But to think its against local laws to have an ambulance on hand that is licensed to handle the job, is straight up un-true.

It all depends on who you hire to handle the job.

[flvideo]

I don't usually insert myself in these debates but this is a subject dear to my heart. I have been involved in racing fo 61 years last feb. When I raced when some one was hurt I guess the race director patched him up. I don't remember but now days its different. I raced with T-shirt genes and tennis shoes. Things have changed. All that being said I have been at tracks that had a fire truck and had ambulances. In fact I was present at a track where we had a bad fire and I think the fire people did not know where their butts were. 2nd'ly I have been at tracks many times where drivers were pretty banged up and the ambulance stabilized the driver and waited for bay flight. Our safety folks are trained in Motor sports rescue, they are trained in fighting motor sports fires! I was at a track last year when a pro truck caught on fire and the infield crew seemed to have no clue what they were doing. NSS and Desoto I can attest to have the compenent personell to take care of most any situation. I have been to tracks that have ambulances that belong to the track but they can't by law transport.
Thats my 2 cents and I am stickin to it!

[luke81]

I contacted one of the local tracks here and it costs them $1500 for the evening to have an ambulance on site. I assume it may not be a whole lot less down there.

In Pinellas County where Showtime is located it costs 115.78 per hour, with a 3 hour minimum to have a real ambulance waiting on-site. So for a 4 hour program this adds less than 500$ to the night's costs. I don't think that's unreasonable.

[dd38]

Years ago we would say if Frank Wood or David "Tank" McDonald were at the track don't let the rescue people there touch us. Get Frank or Tank! This past January a year ago I was in a very bad auto accident. I don't remember all that happened (I was taking a nap people told me), but Orange County Fire Rescue transported me to ORMC. Don't know how long it took them to get there, or anything at all, but a 4 mile ride to ORMC was right at $1000. But that included Hospitality services such as Oxygen, I.V. fluids, monitors and of course the Lights were on!

[Winger]

I have to put my two cents in. I was an AEMT III for over 25 years. I know northern racing and Florida racing. I never went to a track in the north where there were not rescue personnel and an ambulance on site, even 40 years ago. I have been to Florida for a while now and have seen quite a few tracks with a minimum of one EMT on site and fire extinguishers on a tow truck. I've also seen some tracks like East Bay, Volusia and NSS that do have the proper setup. I am also aware of a couple of deaths at a Florida track that may have been saved if the proper equipment and ambulance were on site. We'll never know. They were heart attacks and they were fatal. The tracks didn't have AED's or even oxygen or IV's available. I doubt any EMT has that at their disposal, and I'd be willing to bet none of the tracks have drugs in their track ambulance either. BTW, an EMT without equipment is not much better than a boyscout with first aid training. I've been there done that. Also, the rapid transportation isn't usually that important, unless it's severe trauma. Most advanced ambulances can do almost as much as can be done in an emergency room. It wasn't unusual for me to spend 45 minutes at a heart attack scene before even transporting. I could do everything the ER could do, with the exception of administering morphine and inserting a pacemaker. I can guarantee none of the track ambulances are set up to do that sort of thing. If a track has a full arrest and needs to call an ambulance and there is no one to defibrillate, chances are the victim will not survive, even with CPR performed. It just takes too long to go and call, have an ambulance dispatched, and wait for the ambulance, unless it's parked outside. Phil, keep saying what you're saying. I'm usually one who does and I'm just tired of it.

[Phil Jacques]

In Pinellas County where Showtime is located it costs 115.78 per hour, with a 3 hour minimum to have a real ambulance waiting on-site. So for a 4 hour program this adds less than 500$ to the night's costs. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Not unreasonable at all, so 3pm until Midnight would run $1050... And most likely aid in lowering the insurance rate charged to the track which in the long run could offset some of the cost.

I have to put my two cents in. I was an AEMT III for over 25 years. I know northern racing and Florida racing. I never went to a track in the north where there were not rescue personnel and an ambulance on site, even 40 years ago. I have been to Florida for a while now and have seen quite a few tracks with a minimum of one EMT on site and fire extinguishers on a tow truck. I've also seen some tracks like East Bay, Volusia and NSS that do have the proper setup. I am also aware of a couple of deaths at a Florida track that may have been saved if the proper equipment and ambulance were on site. We'll never know. They were heart attacks and they were fatal. The tracks didn't have AED's or even oxygen or IV's available. I doubt any EMT has that at their disposal, and I'd be willing to bet none of the tracks have drugs in their track ambulance either. BTW, an EMT without equipment is not much better than a boyscout with first aid training. I've been there done that. Also, the rapid transportation isn't usually that important, unless it's severe trauma. Most advanced ambulances can do almost as much as can be done in an emergency room. It wasn't unusual for me to spend 45 minutes at a heart attack scene before even transporting. I could do everything the ER could do, with the exception of administering morphine and inserting a pacemaker. I can guarantee none of the track ambulances are set up to do that sort of thing. If a track has a full arrest and needs to call an ambulance and there is no one to defibrillate, chances are the victim will not survive, even with CPR performed. It just takes too long to go and call, have an ambulance dispatched, and wait for the ambulance, unless it's parked outside. Phil, keep saying what you're saying. I'm usually one who does and I'm just tired of it.

I am a huge advocate of safety in and out of the racecar. If you were to look in my racecars, you will find a full 3 nozzle halon system, ATL bladder fuel cell, full containment seat, collapsible column etc. Safety is #1 always and should be for everyone. Many people seem to take for granted the danger of this sport and the consequences of not being properly prepared...

[turnleft]

New question

What equipment does the EMT that is at the track have at there disposal? Do they have and AED (automated external defibrillator), and oxygen? Can a EMT start an IV? Just curious?. Vince