Is OSW *done* now...?

[luke81]

Yep, looks you've got figured out alright.

I'm glad we agree on that!

[scottgarrity07]

Here's a scenario that anyone who has raced around here would understand: You practice and qualify in the summer months and its hot and humid as all hell. The track is greasy and the motors are choked. The typical early evening thunderstorm rolls through and the temperature drops like a rock and the air dries out a little. Now its cooler and you have a ton more grip and the motor can breathe. Everyone picks up 4 tenths. What do you do, disqualify the whole field? Forget the bracket racing fantasy, it won't work and tracks won't implement it because they know the racers won't come. How about some "real world" solutions that the track owners will really try?

[Boneman]

Isn't this the forum where most people agree that qualifying is bad for the show, and that heats are a better way to go? With no qualifying, how will we know the "break out" time?

[Matt Albee]

Here's a scenario that anyone who has raced around here would understand: You practice and qualify in the summer months and its hot and humid as all hell. The track is greasy and the motors are choked. The typical early evening thunderstorm rolls through and the temperature drops like a rock and the air dries out a little. Now its cooler and you have a ton more grip and the motor can breathe. Everyone picks up 4 tenths. What do you do, disqualify the whole field? Forget the bracket racing fantasy, it won't work and tracks won't implement it because they know the racers won't come. How about some "real world" solutions that the track owners will really try?

You might have missed the earlier post where I said " or whatever amount is determined by the rules " . If the breakout needs to be 4 tenths faster, then make it 4 tenths faster. Or 1 tenth. Or 3 tenths. But in answer to your question, yes, if everyone went faster than allowed, they would all be DQd. I'd like to see a normal asphalt short track race in Florida where the entire field went 4 tenths or more quicker than their qualifying lap. I'm betting it's never happened.

It's amazing how many scenarios you come up with where the racers won't come. From the standpoint of fans i'd have to say " then stay home " Because the show you've been giving the fans, for the most part, is terrible and the attendance figures reflect that. Keep worrying only about your own little piece of the pie and watch the sport disappear. Or try something different and see what happens.

[Matt Albee]

Isn't this the forum where most people agree that qualifying is bad for the show, and that heats are a better way to go? With no qualifying, how will we know the "break out" time?

I see a couple of ways it could be done without qualifying. But don't hold your breath for a wide spread "no qualifying" format being used in Florida anytime soon.

[Old Sunshine Fan]

Yep, right on that Matt.... that is what the other thread (about Desota) was all about... it had a great long discussion regarding what Desota is trying to do vs. what they were doing... Jimmy and Critter have a great start with the new rules (post the "Meeting")... just hope they go with NO Qualifying and run heats..... but that's a fan's wish.... OSF

[scottgarrity07]

OSF-Desoto has stated in it's meetings that they will no longer be time trialing and that they will be running heats and handicapping. Not sure bout the Brighthouse races tho.

Matt-I'll never have to "stay home" because your pie-in-the-sky fantasy of "bracket racing" (thankfully) ain't ever gonna happen here.

[Jimmy McKinley]

Sandbagging isn't an issue, there are many tracks that use completely inverted races including the features. Bracket drag racing uses the same concept. Every car uses the fastest lap time they turned in on a given night, either in qualifying or heat races. During each race, cars are timed at random and anyone caught going quicker than their qualifying time by a certain amount is DQd and the time he was caught running is his new qualifying time for the night.
In fact, you could leave it up to the racers themselves like bracket racing does. Each car has to let the race director know what his fastest lap time was in practice, that's his benchmark for the night. The crew chief can subtract or add a little to that time if he knows the track and/or weather conditions are going to change so as to avoid getting caught with a much quicker time.. Then, as above, if the car is caught during random lap timing going 2 tenths quicker ( depending on the track length ) he is DQd, from that race.

"Breakout racing" *sucks*.

Quite a few tracks up here use this "rule", and, while it keeps cars in tight packs, it also leaves the (various) leaders using the brake-check to keep guys behind him - in the middle of the straightaways. Sure, *some* fans might like the "bumper-beatin'" type racing, it doesn't really make for *real* racing, in my opinion. They don't *disqualify* anyone that breaks out; they get black-flagged and must drop to the rear of the field. I hadn't seen a *whole field* get black-flagged yet, but did see about half a field.

I won't go back to any track that uses this rule.

[Jimmy McKinley]

You want a simple simple system, as simple as it gets, here's one:

For the heat races, take the point standing, flip it over and cut in how many heat races you want. So in whatever heat races, the fast cars come from the back. If a new drive shows up, to the back of one of the heat.

Feature: Take last week feature, invert it and there is your line up for tonight feature. Newcomer ...to the back.

I have use this system for years, it works fine. In fact, it is still in use today at differents tracks up this way.

Everybody know where they will start tonight B4 the show starts. You can arrive at the track(the officials) with all your line up ready. Just check out the m.i.a. and add the newcomers.

For the first four weeks of points:

Everyone draws for a heat race and a starting spot in said heat race.

Feature will line up inverted of heat-race finish, but only for the first few weeks of the season.

Extra points and $$$ for winning the heat to discourage sand-bagging.

After five weekends of racing, go on a four-week point system, inverted, for heats and features.

If you miss two consecutive weekends, not counting rainouts, you start at the rear.

If you're a new driver with less than four weeks of points after the season starts, you start at the rear.

With this system, the fast guys come from the back. The "slower" guys have a chance to win a heat and gain some points.

[Frasson118]

Realistically..... how many guys, at whatever track in Florida, actually SHOW UP 4 weeks in a row?

Not many....

This works up north where racer are 'committed' to an entire season, but that dedication doesn't really exist, with few exceptions.

Forget the whole 'qualifying' system... that whole idea needs to go AWAY, for any race in Fla other than Gov. Cup & Snowball Derby. NOBODY ELSE, at any time should be doing Time Trials (which is what we called it.... Qualifying meant you RACED your way into the feature).

By the way.... I'm another that thinks (and have said so for a few years now), that the Bracket system could work. I don't like the DQ idea, but if someone is marginally quicker than the competition, bump them up to the next bracket.... and each successive bracket pays better than the lower bracket.

"Bring what you've got, we'll put you in the group you BELONG in. A real racer isn't gonna run his 18 second car at 20 second pace for long.... Sandbagging is only hurting yourself, both out of the adrenaline rush of going as fast as you can, but also at the pay window.

Don't DQ the winners... Just inform them that next week, you bumped to the next level.

I'm not talking here about the 'Pro' level cars, its an effort to bring cars out of the garages that already have the attitude that 'I can't keep up with XYZ, so why bother going"

There's not as much a shortage of cars, as there is a majority of racers that feel like their budget can't compete with guys with a bigger budget.