Citrus Mods going to slicks

[openwm53]

After some disappointing car counts Critter decided to run the modifieds on the F-53 slicks. The track was already racey but it just became much better. Its my opinion that it was a great move. All you pro slick guys lets get up there and support a promoter that listened.......... Doug Miller

[Matt Albee]

OWMs on slicks is what the good lord intended. Of course " it will just give them big motor cars more of an advantage ".

[owm61]

Hell ya, I think I'll put some 2.00 restictors in her instead of the 1.00 and dig, Thanks for listening. Now if we can get FTS, SHOWTIME, ADALE,AND CITRUS, TO sit down and say we each get them 1 a month I honestly believe yu will see car counts get better,1 tire for all 4 tracks, Put up some 1,000 to win races, no entry and they will come . JMO

[elmer]

I would like to see every track have there late models on a 10" slick then a sportsman class that can get there take offs. Then the open wheels run the 8" slick then the street stocks can run their take offs. It would save racers so much money if they happens you would see more cars come out of retirement. As the tires are the biggest expense that cost racers money on a weekly basis. Of course their will be guys buying new rubber each week or two,but that's gonna always be a factor.

[openwm53]

Not True

OWMs on slicks is what the good lord intended. Of course " it will just give them big motor cars more of an advantage ".

You can bring your big motor cars if you want but like T.C. stated you better have restrictors in them. I personally enjoy watching the cars in front of me roasting tires..............just a matter of a few laps after that.

[PMENNENGA]

The sportsman car just need to be on a hard tire, hoosier 750. that way they last more then 2 nights... No 10 inch tires.

[Matt Albee]

I've watched over the years as circle track racing keeps getting dumbed down, and i'm curious where it will end. It's easy to make fun of people who say that slicks and wider tires in general just help the ' big motor cars " even more. Those same people insist that using ultra hard, narrow, cheap tires will somehow negate all the horsepower and everyone will have a chance to win. Of course the same racers will win no matter what tires or engines they're required to use.
Now we're into crate motors and E-mods to keep the costs down. Before long we'll probably see a big push to outlaw headers. Stock cast iron exhaust manifolds are much cheaper and will keep those high dollar motors from winning. Constantly trying to re-write the rules just to keep yourself competitive isn't the way to build circle track racing back up. It just keeps dumbing down the racing.
There is no excuse for keeping 10 inch and wider tires out of racing. Every class should be able to use them. Yes, every class. The SLMs and OWMs can sell take offs to the lower classes.

[OWM94]

Great call by all track. We got the tire problem fixed, now they need to quit scheduling mods on the same nights

[scottgarrity07]

You're right on there Pat Mennenga. Whether its the Hoosier 750, 880, Sportsman or similar, thats what we need to be on if the promoters wanted a pit area full of Sportsman cars. There are so many Sportsman cars that are parked because the purse/tire ratio is so far off. Look at the Sportsman 50 last year at Orlando. It drew 28 cars because of the good purse. Many of the cars were cars that hadn't seen the light of day for years. It's just tough for guys to run for $400 to win with a set of tires that cost $520 and are pretty much worn out after one race. Unfortunately, with the OWMs now off the Hoosier 650/450 tires I have a bad feeling that we are stuck on these tires until the LARGE supply of them in every tracks tire barn runs out. Now Sportsman are on a tire that costs more and lasts less than the new OWM tire, while running for a significantly smaller purse. (BTW Pat, any chance you might be willing to take any of your 2 good lookin' cars to Ellisville this Saturday night?)

[ocalasp76]

(BTW Pat, any chance you might be willing to take any of your 2 good lookin' cars to Ellisville this Saturday night?)

Patrick and Michael were at Ellisville for the 50 lapper a few weeks ago.. Good to see them bring the cars out after a year and a half too..
-JIM-

[rmac]

Take-offs

Take - offs are not a good idea, we had to run them on pro figure 8s and people just had late model guys buy them and run 5 practice laps on them and take them off and you had new tires. No way to police it.

[polesitter61]

So let me see if I remember this right.....a little over 6 years ago, the modified car counts all over the state had decreased to single digits on a normal night at most tracks. The class had all but died, enter the treaded/grooved tire....car counts revived, and the class grew to one of the strongest divisions in the state. The Goodyears and American Racers seemed to last long enough to get more than a week out of them, mission accomplished. These tires brought crate motors to the division, which brought more racers. No longer did you have to worry about racing against an SB2 cup motor, in fact, you almost smiled a little when you saw one show up because you knew they had their hands full. Everyone seemed pretty happy.....enter Hoosier. The 650 program didn't work right from the get go, the tires were too soft. Citrus tried some 700's on someones car in a race against 650's, of course they said they were junk, he couldn't keep up with the 650's. A piss poor way to test tires IMO. So Hoosier came up with this great idea to soften the left side tires so the right sides didn't have to do as much work. They claimed this change would give the racers more laps out of their rights. Well....I would liken that to telling someone that they would get better gas mileage by putting a V8 in their Toyota instead of their 4 cylinder. After all, the engine wouldn't be working as hard to motivate the car, and you wouldn't be pushing the gas pedal down as far, that should save gas right? But now, most of you wear out a left rear before any other tire with the 450's on the left.

It seems to me that everyone has just thrown in the towel trying to find the right treaded/grooved tire for the class. Yoho needed a way to get cars to come race at his track, so he went the way of the slicks. It worked because there are a group of modified drivers who wanted to be on them anyway. And now every other track is scrambling to try and get those cars to come back to their tracks also.

This isn't the answer, this is a knee jerk reaction. Citrus will be lucky to gain 2 cars a night from this switch.

From the racers perspective, I don't blame them for wanting the slicks. You're all ready buying tires every week, so why not slicks right? Here's why not....not everyone is buying new treaded/grooved tires every week now, maybe half the field on a regular night. Whether it's true or not, some drivers/owners believe that they can get more than one competitive night out of them. In racing, perception is most peoples reality. Those same people will now look at things differently with the slicks. Now they will think if they don't buy new tires every week, they have no shot at winning, they will need a bigger motor to compete, ect.

The bottom line is this, you need more than the best 10 modifieds in the state to have a good show for the fans. While I can enjoy a 5 car race that has a tight battle for the lead, most do not. Making this switch has just put everyone right back where Modified racing was 6+ years ago.

I'll close with these questions for the pro slick bunch:

1. Has your financial position changed for the better in the past 6 years so that you can now better afford to race?

2. Have the payouts increased enough to cover the cost of buying tires weekly?

3. Is it cheaper to get to the race track than it was 6 years ago?

4. Are pit gate fees less?

5. Is racing fuel less?

6. Are you racing parts cheaper? (shocks!)

I'm betting that the answer is no on all 6 questions for 90% of you....

So what can possibly make you think this is the right direction to go for your class?

Off my soapbox, let the ranting continue

[openwm53]

John

First of all you know me..........And a lot of what you are saying is true. I can remember when we had 4 cars 5 cars show up. Then we started getting a bigger field and Citrus had some pretty big car counts.

I don't believe it was completely the tire switch. I believe it had to do with Ocala going to dirt??? Maybe not completely but it made a difference

Since 2009 I personally have ran the goodyear treaded, the American racer treaded and every variation of the hoosier treaded. I have probably purchased 75 sets.

Yoho made a decision to go to slicks because he called a meeting at a public place for all to come per division to ask the drivers to vote on what they wanted...........the mod drivers voted in slicks.

I personally have not had good luck with the hoosier treaded lasting long enough to be competitive for two races ( that's just me ) I do not want to race when I am out gunned. So I buy tires. I have now ran about 8 races on the f-53's and can honestly say that personally I can feel comfortable running two nights on 1 set of tires. But there is a small difference Showtime doesn't run heat races and they run 35 lap features.............a little less wear and tear. But again you know me and I would rather run heats and 50 lap features.

I will say this also....Citrus already had a decent outside.......well its fixin to get a whole lot better..........I think we will be seeing some serious side by side racing at citrus with the outside possibly becoming quicker the the inside...........Yep I said it and cant wait to see. John see you on Sep 7th oh and to answer your question nothing is cheaper..........But the slicks are the same price as the treaded.

[Matt Albee]

Take - offs are not a good idea, we had to run them on pro figure 8s and people just had late model guys buy them and run 5 practice laps on them and take them off and you had new tires. No way to police it.

Is there any reason to police it? Look, racers who are smart enough are always going to game the system. Always. But there comes a time when trying to police everything just becomes ridiculous. If a racer figures out a way to get late model guys to buy tires and then sell em to him at reduced prices, how do you plan to stop that? Where treaded tire purchases are already controlled ( how many you can purchase per night ), that same thing has been done for a long time.
From a pure business standpoint, if you only allow 10 inch slicks for all of your classes, the race tire companies don't have to invest in making several types of tires. And that should lower prices for everybody because the 10 inch slick is pretty much universal around the country. And if you use a hardness rule, you can open up tires to more than one manufacturer, competition will reduce the tire prices. Everyone will have access to take offs which will give the faster classes and wealthier teams an outlet for their used tires.
As for trying to control your ability to win by slowing everyone else down to your level, a good driver and good crew chief are going to win regardless of what restrictions you put on them.

[Matt Albee]

So let me see if I remember this right.....a little over 6 years ago, the modified car counts all over the state had decreased to single digits on a normal night at most tracks. The class had all but died, enter the treaded/grooved tire....car counts revived, and the class grew to one of the strongest divisions in the state. The Goodyears and American Racers seemed to last long enough to get more than a week out of them, mission accomplished. These tires brought crate motors to the division, which brought more racers. No longer did you have to worry about racing against an SB2 cup motor, in fact, you almost smiled a little when you saw one show up because you knew they had their hands full. Everyone seemed pretty happy.....enter Hoosier. The 650 program didn't work right from the get go, the tires were too soft. Citrus tried some 700's on someones car in a race against 650's, of course they said they were junk, he couldn't keep up with the 650's. A piss poor way to test tires IMO. So Hoosier came up with this great idea to soften the left side tires so the right sides didn't have to do as much work. They claimed this change would give the racers more laps out of their rights. Well....I would liken that to telling someone that they would get better gas mileage by putting a V8 in their Toyota instead of their 4 cylinder. After all, the engine wouldn't be working as hard to motivate the car, and you wouldn't be pushing the gas pedal down as far, that should save gas right? But now, most of you wear out a left rear before any other tire with the 450's on the left.

It seems to me that everyone has just thrown in the towel trying to find the right treaded/grooved tire for the class. Yoho needed a way to get cars to come race at his track, so he went the way of the slicks. It worked because there are a group of modified drivers who wanted to be on them anyway. And now every other track is scrambling to try and get those cars to come back to their tracks also.

This isn't the answer, this is a knee jerk reaction. Citrus will be lucky to gain 2 cars a night from this switch.

From the racers perspective, I don't blame them for wanting the slicks. You're all ready buying tires every week, so why not slicks right? Here's why not....not everyone is buying new treaded/grooved tires every week now, maybe half the field on a regular night. Whether it's true or not, some drivers/owners believe that they can get more than one competitive night out of them. In racing, perception is most peoples reality. Those same people will now look at things differently with the slicks. Now they will think if they don't buy new tires every week, they have no shot at winning, they will need a bigger motor to compete, ect.

The bottom line is this, you need more than the best 10 modifieds in the state to have a good show for the fans. While I can enjoy a 5 car race that has a tight battle for the lead, most do not. Making this switch has just put everyone right back where Modified racing was 6+ years ago.

I'll close with these questions for the pro slick bunch:

1. Has your financial position changed for the better in the past 6 years so that you can now better afford to race?

2. Have the payouts increased enough to cover the cost of buying tires weekly?

3. Is it cheaper to get to the race track than it was 6 years ago?

4. Are pit gate fees less?

5. Is racing fuel less?

6. Are you racing parts cheaper? (shocks!)

I'm betting that the answer is no on all 6 questions for 90% of you....

So what can possibly make you think this is the right direction to go for your class?

Off my soapbox, let the ranting continue

Can't fault your reasoning, but the answer is increased purses. Now that's not news of course, but trying to make the racing as inexpensive as possible only really hurts the show. And the fans who hopefully pay to watch the show aren't interested in seeing the cars go slower and or look worse.
6 years ago has nothing to do with anything, nothing has gotten cheaper over the last 60 years. And we all know that going in. So if racers want to keep racing, plan on spending more money than you did 20 years ago, or even 2 years ago. And instead of making the show worse, make it better with faster, better looking, better handling race cars.
Treaded tires don't and can't offer any advantage over a well thought out 10 inch slick tire.