Southern Sportsman Series Returns In 2013!!!

[scottgarrity07]

O.K.. So there's three 50 Lap Sportsman races coming up in the next 5 weeks (2 of them added since this thread went up, the other was the original scheduled date for the Sportsman Challenge Series at CCS that they left on the schedule). They are September 22nd at Citrus County Speedway, October 6th at Showtime Speedway and October 19th at Orlando Speedworld. This is a great opportunity for all of us Sportsman guys to show how we would support a Series. I have heard that Scott Jackman (old Director of the Southern Sportsman Series) will be at the Citrus race checking things out and talking to people. I wish my car was fixed so I could make all three, but it won't be ready until the Orlando show. Come on out guys and make as many as you can. Our support of these events will speak volumes!

[Frasson118]

Just be careful on how much 'volume' you speak. Too many Promoters feel that if they can bring in a good field on their own, why would they need a Series?

I agree that a large turnout is essential for getting Track support for a series, but just say they get 15 cars on their own, but a series only brings 18. These tracks need a GOOD turnout for these shows, along with the anticipation of bringing a GREAT field when the Tour comes to town.

It can be a Catch-22 situation. Look what happened to the TBARA schedule this year. Non-TBARA shows are bringing in about the same field as fully sanctioned shows.... and the Promoter doesn't have to pay any kind of sanction fee.

[scottgarrity07]

I think that's the point Frass. All of the tracks except Citrus are NOT drawing good Sportsman fields. Borderline pathetic at some places. One of the problems is that everyone is on a different rule book (except Showtime they are having Sportsman run under home track rules). To go from track to track you have to spend hours in the shop (not to mention the cost) to change your car to be legal AND competitive within those rules. A Series helps by bringing in the "points chasers" along with drawing more cars with the bigger purse, a longer race and a common set of rules. I don't think a Sportsman Series would have any kind of significant sanction fee, like I'm sure TBARA does. There's been a lot of interest in the class lately as 50 lappers that were not on the schedule in the early part of the year have popped up on the schedule at Auburndale, Citrus, Orlando and Showtime. I know the argument exists that a Series would hurt the car counts for the weekly shows as people would want to run the Series and abandon their home track. But that is a hollow argument because it begs the question "What car counts??? (except Citrus)".

[Mike Bresnahan]

I'm in favor of a series and I would love to travel to other tracks again, however I'm not sure the time is right. I know theres a lot of "interest" but talk is cheap. I would like to see more tracks build up a program using Citrus Rules and pay out (which is a proven model) and after getting 12-15 cars at each track, then maybe start a series. I fear whats going to happen now is maybe 12 cars from Citrus decide theyre "series racers" and now the only track in the state that has a car count will dwindle to a 10 car show... What I'm getting at is, for any series to be a complete success there needs to be an adequet feeder supply of cars from the local tracks. Desoto can't really rely on 25 "series only" cars showing up to put on a show. In todays economy, they'd be lucky to get 12. But if they have 12 locals and 12 series guys, now we have a race.

[Winger]

If a series is going to draw a bunch of competitors and fans, why is it necessary to run it on a regular Saturday night? Doing that just makes the competitors have to decide whether to run for series or track points. It doesn't really benefit anyone. Now run the show on a week night as a special with one support class. You can get guys that run their regular Saturday night shows for points and they can now run the series without losing home track points. The guys who only choose to run the series may decide to pick up a regular Saturday show somewhere, and possibly become a regular at a track. Get a uniform set of rules and run the specials on an off night, be it weeknight or Sunday. JMO

[scottgarrity07]

I don't think it is realistic to expect the tracks to want to have mid-week shows just for a Sportsman series. While I think it would be beneficial to keep from reducing car counts I just don't think they will do it. There is an easier solution, but it would require ALL the tracks involved working together. If you set aside say, the 3rd Saturday of each month as a night to NOT run Sportsman at your track then the Series could schedule all their dates around the state on that night (unless the Series is at your track that night). I don't think that it matters if you have closest track near you running Sportsman on the same other Saturdays of the month. There are hardly any Sportsman guys that are running two tracks regularly. They are either staying at their home track all the time or there is the other group of guys (Thomas, Williamsons, Morris, Welch, myself, etc.) that are running all over the place. There has to be some give and take to make this work by everybody, but if there is everybody wins. And Mike B, I agree that talk is cheap, but there is more than just talk going on here, I assure you. Ideas lead to talk, and talk leads to discussions and discussions lead to actions. From what I here things are in the discussion phase. John from Desoto admitted in his thread that there has been a "track owner meeting". I had heard that this was in the works. Just be patient. There are a lot of players involved here. Rome wasn't built in a day and it's only September...

[floridanajoe]

Lets face facts , you cant drive half across the state and race a series show ,and not atleast make back most of your expenses . The sportsman racer cant afford that , I tried it for 2 years. Think of the poor guy that finishes 10th and get $50

[scottgarrity07]

At $500+ for a set of tires, race fuel around $10 a gal, hauler fuel at $3.75 a gal and pit passes $25-30 a piece I don't think anyone out there is making back most of their expenses anymore, even if your local track is a half hour away. Those days are gone. However if your racing for $1000 to win and $100 to start (numbers being thrown around by some involved), thats a heck of a lot better than $400 to win and $25 to start a regular show and offsets SOME of the costs of travel. Racing nowadays is a money-losing proposition for any racer. It just part of the reality of racing today. It's a major reason why fields are so short at many tracks. Having a good reason to WANT to spend your hard-earned money is what still brings out those who can still afford to race.

[Mike Bresnahan]

Scott I know series talks are taking place. My reference to talk being cheap wasn't about there being a series, it was about all these racers saying they will show up... Every year me and all my friends talk about going on a cruise, everyone says "hell yeah!!! Count me in." but when it's time to actually book the cruise there's about 2-3 couples who actually do it... Talk is cheap.

In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, the series should model the FUPS series. Each track has identical rules and a weekly show with their own points with a separate points system for the "series races". With no other track running sportsman the same night. Again, without a back bone of local cars at each track it's going to be difficult.

[Mark Tanner]

Sportsman rules

Scott I know series talks are taking place. My reference to talk being cheap wasn't about there being a series, it was about all these racers saying they will show up... Every year me and all my friends talk about going on a cruise, everyone says "hell yeah!!! Count me in." but when it's time to actually book the cruise there's about 2-3 couples who actually do it... Talk is cheap.

In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, the series should model the FUPS series. Each track has identical rules and a weekly show with their own points with a separate points system for the "series races". With no other track running sportsman the same night. Again, without a back bone of local cars at each track it's going to be difficult.

Mike, you are so right, take a look at the rules, you will need a combined rules with weight differences based on body style, motor AND drivetrain combination and Chassis/Frame configuration, kind of likew when we put the FAST rules together with the limited, crates and supers. Back in the day when I raced "thunder cars" you pulled a camaro out of the junk yard put you roll cage in it and tweeked the suspension!! Now there are so many differences between the track rules, heck you have unibody Sportsmans running full frames. I know this sounds negative however if you run a series you don't want the local guys being blown away by the travelers because of the rules, or visa versus. I had to deal with this with the Sunbelt Series and there needs to be a clear understanding. In addition for this to fly there has to be an agreement among the tracks that they will no compete so that they benefit when it is THEIR turn.

[Frasson118]

Here's a thought that might help both the tracks and the racers:

For every Series race, have the "host" track put the Sportsman class on their schedule for the prior week to the Series. This would boost the field for the "regular" show, provide laps to racers that would like some "test & tune" time, and would be a nice lead-in to promote the following weeks Series race.

This way, track points chasers could run their weekly show without sacrificing their points standings, and at the same time, would allow/encourage the travelers to support the weekly show at the upcoming "host" track.

Whatever you do, do NOT allow separate practice days at these tracks. Too much expense for NO return, and no advantage for the racers that would have taken advantage of all the practice time. Racers don't want to feel like they are behind the 8-ball before they pull in the gate.

You want laps and practice? Show up on these PRE-series nights and help them with a better field.

[Winger]

Jerry, I had thought about the idea of racers using the prior weekend as a tune up also, when I put forth the special show idea. I discarded it because that might be taking someone from their regular track. If they are not running somewhere else, then they might consider running the regular race at the upcoming venue but I wouldn't promote it if it's competing against another track.
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Scott, I agree that having a mid-week show for the sportsman class alone probably wouldn't work. I threw it out there because I have heard a lot of good things about the old Southern Sportsman Series but that was before I was in this area. I thought maybe there was enough interest to support it. Perhaps it would be advantageous to run special shows with the sportsman and late model series together. Again, keep it off the regular race nights. As someone who attended a lot of midweek shows, I can tell you the tracks had full fields and grandstands for those special shows. There isn't a track owner in Florida who wouldn't want to fill their stands, even if it meant a mid-week show. A Sunday show would probably be easier. I know asphalt guys feel they have to practice but limit practice to one hour and don't run time trials. If you run time trials, many drivers will spend practice trying to get their car to run fast for that one lap. Then they start up front and block. Let them spend practice getting the car race ready and then run heat races. That's some more practice for some. Let the top 6 or 8 draw for starting position and then have the feature. I'm just throwing some ideas out there and they may have already been discussed. I know the majority of spectators hate time trials. Also, they don't contribute to good racing, particularly on asphalt. If you feel there should be a clock involved, use transponders and get times during practice. Or discard the draw and have the fastest heat winner start first, second fastest heat winner second, etc. Again, I don't think that contributes to good racing but I know some drivers feel qualifying is important.

[scottgarrity07]

Wow guys, these are some great ideas you are throwing around. It addresses all of the problems and concerns of everyone. I repeat again, I have no say in what will happen with a Series, but how about a few of these ideas (plus a few of my own):

1. One set of rules for the Sportsman class for EVERY track participating in the Series. Weekly or Series, same rules, period. (every car can run everywhere.)

2. Set aside one Saturday night per month that no Series track will run Sportsman on EXCEPT the hosting track for the Series that month. (No competition will maximize the number of cars for a Series date.)

3. Allow no Practice nights two weeks before the Series date BUT have a Sportsman race the week before the Series date. (This will maximize the participation in the Weekly racing by Series racers by being the only opportunity for them to test and prepare.)

4. Make the Series race a points paying event for the Weekly points in addition to giving Series points. (This will make the Weekly competitors come out and support the Series events at their track.)

5. Run Heats instead of Time Trials and take a set number from each heat for the redraw that will total 18. Top Six in a three heat format, Top Four in four heat format. Then do A COMPLETE RANDOM REDRAW for the feature. (This will create incredible excitement for the fans by getting to watch heats instead of boring time trials and not have to endure a runaway feature with all the fast cars up front. This is also good for the racers because the Heats will not require maximum aggression to try and get to the front. Get in a transfer spot and it won't make a difference where you start in the feature. If your car is good, then 50 laps is enough time to get to the front. With full fields there will be a fair share of cautions, no doubt.)

I think these innovations would make a Series a winner for everyone. Fans get an exciting race and will want to come out and fill up the grandstands. Racers get a Series and a qualifying system that won't put the same cars up front every week and makes heats a less risky proposition. The track operators get what they are looking for in having full fields for the Series, in addition to getting more cars for the show the week before the Series. Unified rules will also keep the costs down for the racer, while allowing Weekly guys to be on the same level with the Series guys AND the Track owners have a larger pool to be able to draw from on a weekly basis. John, Rex, Critter, the Roberts (Hart and Yoho), Robert Ford and Kevin and Terry Williams are you reading this??? What does everybody else think????? Please comment!

[Boneman]

Those are 5 excellent ideas. I hope you can find someone willing to shake up the status quo

[Frasson118]

As much as I hate time trials for a show like this, at least the Southern Sportsman did it right. After qualifying, they invert the top 12. IF the previous Series winner gets IN the top 12, he automatically starts 12th. If not in the top12, he falls in line with the rest of 13th thru the field. This ALWAYS puts a fast car halfway through the field. It's a great pitch point for the announcer that can say "here's a guy you might want to watch... last weeks winner".

It definitely shuffled fast cars into the MIDDLE of the line-up.... much like TBARA does. With them, you NEVER see the fastest car start on the pole.

That Series has the FANS in mind, and always put on a show. Model this series after theirs (I'm sure it can't be identical), and make sure the FANS see a show.