All you experts

[derf]

The mini stock class could try useing a STOCK motors with fuel injection system. There is plenty of them availible.Take your pick Chevy,Ford,Honda, Toyota or whatever. Have the track or the drivers or both drop off flyers to places that people would visit like auto parts store and/or home improvement places and so on. It's a couple of ideas.

[L2RHC]

"Continued.... 4 classes max. Too many choices promotes tiny fields of cars. Combined Super & Pro LM's, a Modified class with an IMCA style rule book (no 25k motors), a Sportsman/Outlaw class, and an entry level junkyard-salvaged class. Eliminate Mini Stocks, Legends, Bando's, and Super Stocks entirely. Who even wants to see a 10 car field of nothing but 25 year old Monte Carlos?
Another thing that is VERY important, yet completely overlooked... demand that the cars are attractive, and nicely lettered. If half the field is covered in primer, bond, and duct tape numbers, they LOOK like junk.... and peoples perception is that they ARE junk. Women especially, like a neat, clean, color coordinated appearance. Butt ugly racecars don't attract new fans. And DO NOT allow these cars to represent your speedway at other public functions. Bright colors attract the eye, not primer and duct tape."

You hit the nail on the head! Women only like the super lates lol

[Winger]

I won't repeat what's been said. Lots of ideas that have been bantered around before and are good. The one thing that seems like common sense is using more modern cars. Yet the don't seem to be adopted. You have to ask why and I have. Basically the answer I get is they are too hard to tech. The equipment to do it is expensive and there are many things that can be done electronically or with a computer that make them hard to monitor. I don't know, I don't work on them. I'm not saying they can't be teched, it's just expensive to do it. How do we work around that issue?

[Frasson118]

Most Tech guys are older, and know all about carburetion, but not much about injection. Hire some young kid that spent the last 10 years working on modern systems. They are the ones that know about injection, chips, on-board computers....

Some tracks up north are running 6-cylinder, front wheel drive classes. From what I've heard, the fields are increasing and the competition has been pretty equal. Haven't heard a word about them having rampant Tech issues at all.

Face it.... How many Monte Carlos and Pintos/Mustangs are left to be found? The FWD 6 cylinder cars are piled on top of each other in every junkyard in the country. They should be the basis for your Strictly Stock type class.

[UREZ2PASS]

Excellent replies ! Keep em coming guys !

[MJM10]

I wrote a long winded response yesterday and when I hit post my computer went nuts and it got deleted...

But the genereal theme was that the track (pits, not the track itself) and stands need to be updated. When you show up to a place and you feel like it cost $5 to build, you don't want to pay $20 for a ticket. Both tracks look and show like they haven't been updated since 1970.

The Pits: Pave the infield, or at least clean/sweep it before every race. You have people with $200K haulers parking in dirt. Its like someone said above, people like to see nice cars, well people with nice cars want to be in nice pits. I have heard from several people that they go all the way to Gresham because the track is so nice. Maybe even re-pave the infield if it is in the budget, build some nice facilities. People want to race at nice tracks. I bet that track at Daytona is packed next year simply because of the ambiance of racing at Daytona...I'm not saying NSS or Orland can be like Daytona but if they were nice places to go race I feel people would want to race there. As of now they don't even have soap in the bathrooms or sinks that work all the time...never mind adding soap, tear that building down and put up some decent facilities. Make the drivers feel like they are spending there money to race at a good track.

The Stands: It feels like a joke when you go there, like a cheap carnival. If your product (I don't care what it is) looks like five bucks, people are gonna think it is five bucks, make it look like a million bucks. Update the restrooms, paint over that wall that looks like it hasn't been updated since 1992, have some decent food, update the grand stands. Make people want to go there...and ADVERTISE. Radio, TV, and billboards, nice ones not ones that look like they were made 30 years ago. Not only for the fans, but it makes a driver feel like they are part of something big when they hear "the best late model drivers in the country will be battling for 100 laps" on the radio on their way into town. Make it interesting with prizes, get one of those guns that shoots T-Shirts into the stands and have the pole sitter shoot out t-shirts of his team, anything to get people excited. I noticed tracks are like a fad, people start going and it avalanches into a huge deal, the snowball derby just keeps getting bigger and bigger, the first time I went to Bubba's track there wasn't anywhere to even sit. Make it fun and get people coming and more people will come. Play modern music, not everybody likes six hours of country music. If you keep doing the same old thing the same old people are going to show up. I feel like the tracks are stuck in the 70's...they need to think outside the box.

I know these aren't in order but as far as keeping costs down for the driver...I feel like those two tracks try to make their money off the driver and their crew rather than the fans. The snowball Derby was five days and it costs $90.00 for a complete pit pass, at the World Series this year I paid $350+ per pit pass and its nine days...do the math. It costs too much to get everyone in the pits. Other than that don't worry about keeping costs down for late models, late model racing is expensive no matter how you slice it...if you can't afford it move to something else, but keep the costs down for the lower classes. Those are the classes that make up the weekly shows, a superstock race with 25 cars is usually a hell of a race. Keep those classes costs as low as possible and get as many cars there as possible.

My final thought is that you have an owner that does not want to spend money to make money. Everyone has ideas but they don't want to listen, even to their own employees. I think as long as he owns the tracks this will not change...I wish it would because those are the two tracks that are closest to me.

[rhinoracing11]

I rember being 14,15 16 wanting to goto OSW to watch the bombers,I wanted to race so bad.I Draged my dad to the races!!!David Rogers in his latemodel castrol bein the driver he was..Bobby Sears...My point being what new blood are we bringin in.Cars of today, racing today.You have to use, FB, Twitter..reaching out ADVERTISE!!!YOUR BRAND!! thing is whats the brand at OSW,maybe this doesnt help,maybe just my thoughts. I dont see to many kids like I was and having a avenue to get to drive.
Rob

[rhinoracing11]

My point,have a bran...advertise your bran,keep your bran happy,keep your customers wanting more.Not one element is more important than the other..
Rob

[UREZ2PASS]

I rember being 14,15 16 wanting to goto OSW to watch the bombers,I wanted to race so bad.I Draged my dad to the races!!!David Rogers in his latemodel castrol bein the driver he was..Bobby Sears...My point being what new blood are we bringin in.Cars of today, racing today.You have to use, FB, Twitter..reaching out ADVERTISE!!!YOUR BRAND!! thing is whats the brand at OSW,maybe this doesnt help,maybe just my thoughts. I dont see to many kids like I was and having a avenue to get to drive.
Rob

You hit the nail on the head with a hammer in your post. Something has to be done to attract young men and women to our sport and our racetracks. What interest them ? It's not what we race today. It's imports, drifting, music, and beautiful girls. Find a way to get these four to a track and you will fill the stands.

[Racer101]

What interest them ? It's not what we race today. It's imports, drifting, music, and beautiful girls. Find a way to get these four to a track and you will fill the stands.

One of the biggest universities in the country is basically right around the corner from OSW, and every time I've ever visited, there have been plenty of beautiful girls. Figure out a way to get some of the students to the track. Get the fraternities and sororities involved somehow. Maybe paint up some of the strictly stocks or whatever class up with their colors or greek letters. Get them to come out and cheer their car on. They may not come out every week on a friday night, but possibly a handful of nights a year. Set up a section in the grandstands for them. Get a couple of kegs, and have cheap beer for them. I know it isn't quite that simple. You might have to hire an off duty officer (or see if somebody knows someone who would volunteer a couple hours of their time and be security) to make sure things don't get too rowdy and that nobody underage drinks. And don't gouge them at the gate, since they are poor college students.
Being that many of these kids probably haven't been around racing, figure out a way to get them excited. Maybe give rides around the track in a pace car or something during intermission, at a decent speed. Maybe that would be a little bit of an insurance liability. I don't know, but I'm not talking out of control fast. Just to give them a different perspective of the track, and maybe get them a little more interested.
But it all comes down to points that have been made before. You have to have a show to sell. There has to be a reason to get people to want to come, and the price has to be fair. The way I see it if you get 40 people in the seats at $15 a piece or 120 people in at $5 a piece the front gate makes the same amount of money. And the track stands a better chance at selling more food.... but more importantly there are more people to talk about it. And if you can't put on a show that when someone leaves they don't say "That wasn't worth my $5", there are probably much bigger problems!

[modracer22]

Here's my 2 cents for what it is worth not much. If I was going to start a race track or take over one the first thing I would do is go to one that is doing really well and see what they are doing so that I have a idea of what I need to do.

I would only have 4 classes and the top class would be modeled after the outlaw latemodels we need something different in florida.

I would have things like family of 4 $25 and it wouldn't cost know more then $8 in the front gate.
I would serve good food a decent price so fans would want to eat at the track instead of stopping at drive through before coming. The bathrooms would be cleaned and kept that way all race night.

I would make it a point to contact racers that haven't been there for a couple of weeks to find out what is going on.

I would find a tire that last a long time kinda of like the old american racers and unless your were the top class you would not be on 10 inch tires. Oh and you would only be allowed 2 tires per night or 4 for 100 lappers. Also if you wanted to come race my 100 lappers you would not have to buy 4 tires

I think walking through the pits and taking the time to thank the drivers and crewmen is very important and taking the time to also thank the fans is equally important.

I would start my show on time and try to wrap it up within 2 to 3 hours and you would not be given 6 or 7 caution laps to repair your car. I'm not a fan of heat races but since a lot of people like them they would happen with a bigger reward for winning but for the feature there would be atleast a 10 car invert. I would also try and have some sort of non winners race ateast a few times a year.

[Jimmy McKinley]

1. Higher car count. Remember most weekly show cars are local drivers. Four or five classes, tops. One "traveling" series a week for three weekends (four weekends in months with five), with the last week being *just* for the "local" divisions. Lower the pit admission. Two tracks, huh? Don't go up against other tracks on the same night; do something *different*. If you run the same night as other tracks, you';re only diluting the fields of cars and fans even more than they already are.

2. Higher fan count I think grandstand-side prices have pretty much leveled out. However, I believe that tracks need to offer a few more "family-friendly" type things: family (or group) discounts (4 family members or a group of four adults for $30, maybe $25 for two adults and two kids?) Lower the concession prices somehow, and allow fans to bring in coolers up to a certain size. Offer some type of "combo" meal, or family-size "meal deals". Offer at least one class of race cars that today's fans can relate to - a high-powered, front-wheel-drive, stock-bodied, EFI class, maybe something named like, "Outlaw Hornets" or something - basically, those tricked-out "drift cars" racing on the oval. Bring back Kids' rides during intermission. Pre-season car show(s) at the local malls. Let the fans get up close and personal with the drivers and cars. One idea I like: give six drivers a week grandstand-side pitting (or as close as the track pit entrance will permit). Let the fans watch these guys work on their car all night.

3. Larger purses I think this goes along with fewer classes. The fewer classes, the purse doesn't have to be spread out among ten of 'em. Get some more local businesses on board, with billboards, sponsoring a class, sponsoring a points title, giving their employees free tickets (they'll spend the money on concessions and souvenirs). This goes along with #1 above; lower the pit admission, run fewer classes, get more cars per class, more cars in the pits = more $$$ at the gate. I'll admit, I'm not real sure onhow most race tracks are *run*; but I've read that most tracks pay their purse with the "back gate".

4. Higher concession sales Again, lower the prices. Offer a family deal. Offer something at the concession stand that other tracks don't: bologna burgers, red-hot dogs (like at Martinsville), just something unique.

5. Concession menu See above. Offer Coke AND Pepsi - not everyone likes just *one* type of food/drink. Have a pizza joint bring in some pizza/calzone/bread sticks/Italian.

6. Teching racecars Hmmm. Tough one unless you got Ricky Brooks on a weekly basis :\

7. Keeping the cost down for car owners Do away with the "track tire". Let the drivers/teams run what they have, as long as the tire duro's out equally, especially with like Late Models and other "high-powered" classes. Offer tow money for pulling more than 100 miles to run at your track.

8. Promoting weekly shows and 9. Advertising Get with local radio, TV, and newspaper outlets. Have an annual "Media day" for the pre-season; then, during the regular season, get all the local "sports" guys from the papers/TV/radio stations to run a "Media" race. Put 'em in a Strictly Stock type car. During the regular season, run a weekly ad in all three media. Get the results out to those outlets in a timely manner. Run a weekly Internet/radio/TV show *for your tracks*. If it takes off, get other weekly tracks on board.

10. Type of racecars. Definitely (Super) Late Models. Mine would be the outlaw-bodied type cars Open-wheel Modifieds, sticking to IMCA- or UMP-style rules. Keep the costs down. Maybe a four-cylinder "Outlaw Mini' type class, with the aluminum "wedge" type bodies OR a V8/V6 Street Stock class with very little changes from stock (can add a spoiler, front valance, etc. - mainly cosmetic changes only with safety equipment, *maybe* some suspension changes)...and a "Strictly Stock" class - no rear-wheel-drive, no V8's, no pickups/wagons, EFI only, street tires, etc. Safety equipment. *If* we had a fifth weekly class, we'd run Strictly Stock Figure 8 cars. These guys'd run a feature only, again, with the high-point guys in the back.

Some other stuff:
Late Models, Modifieds, V8 Street Stocks, and Strictly Stocks (possibly Strictly Stock Figure 8's) would be the regular weekly classes. One touring class per week: TBARA, DAARA, PASS Late Models, Pro Trucks, Wingless Sprints, USAC Midgets, NASCAR Whelen Modifieds, K&N East or West, etc.

Each division would also get a few specials throughout the year: 100-200 lappers for the Late Models; 50-100 laps for the other three divisions.

NO TIME TRIALS at all. We'd run heat races, with the fast guys in the back. Even for the specials. Incentives for winning heat races ($$$, bonus points, etc.). Heat race lineups would be handicapped based on a four-week point average. Miss two weeks or more, you automatically go to the back of the field. Feature lineups would work like this: get a lucky winning child's ticket, and have the kid come down to the frontstretch before the feature<s> to roll a die. Then, invert ten cars plus whatever comes up on the die, so a minimum of 11 cars are inverted each week.

For the big shows, heat race finish determines your feature lineup - in reverse. Heat race winners start in the back; if you fail to finish your heat race, even if you wreck, then you automatically go to the back for the feature.

During practice, set down cones on the inside lane in the corners - make the drivers run the high side and lay some rubber down up top.

Jet dryers Do whatever it takes to get the show in.

SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY!!!

The idea? A *show*. *Racing* - which means *passing* cars to get to the front.

[UREZ2PASS]

This thread is nearing the point of a track owner/promoter operations manual. What we are essentially doing is called "brain storming" and many companies are successful for doing exactly the same thing behind closed doors in their boardroom. I was not expecting this much participation, it goes to show the passion and knowledge that exist in the short track family.

[Osmosis Jones]

Yawn.....

I'm sorry to be......oh hell, who am I kidding....I'm not sorry at all to be the harbinger of doom about this here thread. In the umpteen freakin' years I've been a member or even back before then I've seen this same post surface time and time and time and time again. Always the same "What would you do if you had a billion dollars and could buy/build any race track in the world with any rules you wanted and so on and so on...." deals.

And all for what? What does it ever get accomplished?

Can anyone please tell me even ONE TIME where a promoter or owner has taken a suggestion from the pages of KARNAC or any other racing website's message board and turned into a new policy for their racetrack in the hopes that things would drastically turn around for them and bring in throngs of racers and fans, long concession stand lines and trophy girls with big boobs and...and.....okay, I made up the big-boobed trophy girl part but it's late and my mind sort of wanders in that direction sometimes.

My point of all this is: What good does it do to have these 4 page long discussions amongst ourselves? None of us owns a racetrack. None of us have sway over any decisions made about any race tracks. So really, what good does it do except to pat each other on the back and say "That's right! Great idea, Jimbob! You hit the nail on the head!....Again!....." seems like it's a great, big group therapy session for the Mutual Admiration Society's Racing Fan Chapter.


Wanna know what I'd like? I wish someone would have cloned Tom Stimus, Bert Ashelman and Tom Curley's DNA and started their own master race of super-promoters that race tracks could purchase or even lease-to-own.

I mean, as long as we're all just writing out our wish lists for Santa......


OwikiJ

[RSB]

I felt the same as O.J. after reading the first line in the thread. I stopped and haven't really read ANY of the responses. "Here, dead horsey"!! WAIT, my mind did register something about college girls in one of the responses! Selective "scanning" perhaps??