Some ideas...

[Jimmy McKinley]

Too many "touring series", not enough cars, not enough people in the stands, too little payout, too many different divisons, too many divisions of the same types of cars....<sigh>...I miss the good ol' days...

Palm Beach/Hialeah...St. Pete/Tampa (Golden Gate)/DeSoto/Inverness...

I don't know where I'm goin' with this just yet....LOLOLOLOL...

But I *do* remember packed stands at several tracks through the years, along with packed pits.

Why does no track run a *weekly* Super Late Model division any more? Has the cost for the casual/hobby racer gotten too far out of hand for them? Don't even get me started on the cost of gas just to get to the track.

Just an example: if my dad and brother want to run, the closest place for them to go is Orlando Speedworld. They tow up from Vero, 115 miles one-way, sometimes with a coupla kids with them. That's $100 bucks just to get into the pits for them, if I understand correctly (4 x $25.00, am I right? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on the pit entry fee), not counting the cost of food and stuff.

For the grandstand side: tickets should be "tiered" like this: adults (18-54), seniors (55+), students (12-18), and kids under 12 free. Maybe offer a "family pack" (no matter the ages) including tickets and maybe a meal offer for up to four people for like $30.00. You can't even go out to the movies any more for less than that. Just my girlfriend and I spend about that much after two tickets and food/drinks.

Anyways...IN MY OPINION: a weekly asphalt track should run no more than maybe five divisions. Super Late Models, Sportsman (stock steel-bodied cars, stock front clips, 8" tires, etc. - similar to an old Limited Late Model), a STOCK mini stock class (no 4-cylinder Super Late Models; allow current front-wheel-drive, stock frames, unibodies, etc.), and a Bomber/Street Stock class. Get back to FUN, Street Stock-based Figure 8 racing once a month or maybe every other weekly. Bring in the Sprint Cars once a month. Three "specials" for each division a year: Memorial Day, 4th of July, and end-of-year specials for the SLMs (100-lappers); maybe two 50s and a 100 for the Sportsman cars; three 50-lappers for the Minis, and maybe two 50s and a 100-lapper for the Street Stocks.

Maybe run an Enduro or two during the year, allowing just about anything but full-on race cars (of course, no trucks or vans...).

If the track's season is scheduled for say, March through October, plan on some rain dates throughout the summer. Maybe a few Sunday afternoon, or even evening, rain dates.

Bring back the big Sunday-afternoon end-of-season shows. Plan on maybe qualifying and heat races, along with features for support divisions, on Saturday night, with the big show on Sunday afternoon. I miss the Governor's Cup being a daytime race...

Speaking of the Governor's Cup...since this is supposed to be the "Florida State Championship Race" (as I understand it), this thing should be the very last show of the season in the state, save for the Snowball. Let all of the other tracks finish their regular season, then run the Governor's Cup in early to mid November like it used to be.

And what's up with this "Florida State Championship" race at Lakeland in, what, July?! I *always* thought that the Governor's Cup *was* THE State Championship (the Florida 200?!)...

So anyways...I know y'all have some ideas here...would like to hear your thoughts on your memories of "back in the day" and the current situations...

[Todd McCreary]

4 x $25.00, am I right? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on the pit entry fee

FASCAR pit fees are $30 / person or $20 / person if you have a FASCAR license. a FASCAR license is $75 / person.




should run no more than maybe five divisions.

you mean how Sportsman, Southern Sportsman Series, Late Model and Super Late Model cars all look exactly alike from the grandstands? but they all run different rules?

[Frasson118]

There's too many "big" and "special" races already, and it became a joke. The Florida State Championship (run in the middle of the summer), the Triple Crown (all run at the same track, but in different months), the Winter Spectacular (basically a regular weekly program, with regular divisions), the Governors Cup (with all the same drivers that you can see antime the Sunbelt series is running). I don't see anything "big" or "special" about any of them.

In my opinion, there needs to be more mid-week and Holiday shows. If promoted properly (HaHa), they could go over very big. When I was younger, there was always a BIG race somewhere on all of the summer Holidays, no matter what day of the week it fell on. All the tracks promoted the "big" races even when it was held at another speedway. In return, they (other tracks) would do the same when it was their turn. When is the last time you've heard your local track announcer encouraging you to try a different track, that competes on a different night? I don't remember the last time, other than possibly Orl. Speedworld/New Smyrna as they are owned by the same person. Would it really hurt (just for example) for Ocala to tell fans that there is a big race tommorow night at East Bay or Volusia? Would it hurt EB and VSP to mention that Ocala has a big Late Model show next Friday? These tracks always say they need to create new fans... why not try making BIGGER fans out of the ones they've already got?

Another problem I see, is there are no Racing Newspapers that inform or promote anything upcoming. The ads and hype in these papers put asses in the seats, and drivers in the pits at special races... many of them from other tracks. The Internet is fine if you are LOOKING for a race to go to, but there is no medium that jumps out and grabs YOU by accident. If you weren't a net-savvy person, how in the world could you know that a big ARCA, ASA, or World of Outlaws show was coming to a track an hour or 2 from home? There IS no way.

In reference to Jimmy point about no "weekly" LM races anymore.... you're right about it outpricing the "hobby" type LM racer. How could a weekly racer possibly compete with Choquette, Russell, Anderson, Scofield, etc... that have the budget to rent the track for private testing, come out for "practice night", bolt on fresh rubber eveytime they hit the track, motels & meals for a crew of 8-10, fuel. etc...? The answer is that they CAN'T, and they know it. The tracks have (because of their own need for extra cash) allowed too many opportunities for the "pro's" to out-budget the hobby racer. If you can't keep up with their budget, there's not even a chance to get lucky and even COMPETE with the big dogs. And there ain't many big dogs left. On the flip side, take a look at the East Bay Late Models. No practice days, no fresh rubber every 25 laps... and see if you can tell (from the stands) who has the "big budgets" and who is just a "hobby" racer. I still get a kick out of seeing David Schmauss pulling in with a pick-up truck and an open trailer and whip some of those boys with the big haulers and spare cars. His competitors aren't given the opportunity to out-budget him. He'a a Hobby racer that stands just as good of a chance to win the feature as Keith Nosbish and his big hauler and Miller Lite sponsorship. If the asphalt tracks could find a way to pay the bills without having to pick the pockets of every one of their drivers/customers, you'd see far more cars out there.... which brings more fans... which brings more money.

Mike Peters may be the only guy in the state that gets it!

[Jimmy McKinley]

In reference to Todd, so now that's $120 for four people to get into the pits: two adults and two kids. And to "only" make $150 back, leaving *maybe* actually making $30 - without spending anything on food, tires, gas, etc.

Anyways, as far as the number of classes, I agree that there should be *some* descernible (sp?) difference between the cars, whether it's the looks of the cars, the speeds they turn on the track, or what-not. The casual fan can't tell the difference between a Limited Late Model, a Super Late Model, or a Sportsman when they all LOOK alike. However, I also know that older body-style cars are getting harder to find.

Back in the day, where we ran on a regular basis, there were nine divisions: (Super) Late Models, Outlaws, Thunder Cars, Street Stocks, Mini Stocks, Street Stock Figure Eight, Mini Stock Figure Eight, Super Six, and the Sprint cars. Some of those divisions rotated on a bi-weekly or monthly basis, so not all nine were running on the same night unless there was a rainout. There'd be 25-plus Late Models in the pits WEEKLY, with the fast guys having to come from the back in 25 laps. Every other division would pull 30-plus cars; Sprint cars, there'd be at least 20-25. Two FULL heat races of the LMs with at least three, sometimes as many as five in the other divisions. Heat race lengths ranged from 6 laps for the Mini Stocks to 10 for the LMs, with a 15-lap Figure Eight distance. Feature lengths ran from 12 laps (again, for the Minis), to 25 or 30 for the LMs depending on the size of the field (24 or less, we went 25 laps, 25+ we ran for 30). Paid a $1000 to win a LM feature, too. Start racing at 6:30pm on a Saturday, be done by midnight *maybe*...LOLOLOL...then we'd tow the 160 miles home on Sunday morning.

I also agree that we can't compete with the budgets of guys like the Andersons, Choquette, Scofield, etc. on a weekly basis. Hell, it's hard to even keep up with anyone - but we (I should say Dad and my brother, because I haven't been able to get out there in a while) race because we LOVE it. Been doin' it since the days of Palm Beach/Hialeah (early to mid '70s). Racin' out of our own pockets for YEARS. Won a ton of races over the years at quite a few tracks, but it's getting harder and harder to get to Victory Lane again for some of us. But do we give up? Nope. We keep coming back. Just wish the field was a little more (financially) even We still tow to the track with a old dually pickup and a open-air trailer. Dad always told me even if they had all the money in the world, they'd still use that trailer and put money into the car, instead of a enclosed hauler.

On the fan side of things, I just don't get it in Orlando. One of the biggest metro areas in the state, yet no one in the stands. Is it because of the location of the track? Is it because there's no advertising? I see it barely mentioned in the newspaper on Thursday (*maybe*), but no other weekly advertisiing. I hear ads for Auburndale and Lakeland on the radio all the time (on a station based out of Lakeland), but nothing on the Orlando stations. Nothing on (basic) TV; if you don't have the digital Brighthouse thing, I guess you don't know about the weekly show (is it even still on?).

Anyways...<sigh...>

[Todd McCreary]

On the fan side of things, I just don't get it

as a fan, do you enjoy watching the "racing" that goes on? or have you seen a lot better elsewhere?


check your pm's.

[palmbayer]

nothing wrong with speedworld that a foot or two of clay wouldn't fix!

[Benny The Mule]

The problem with orlando is the fan base is a completely different type of people..there's none left. the general population in orl is the nopi tuner drag racing drifting etc. speedworld is on a downward spiral as far as fans. Dirt won't help it ......nothing will. Before anyone flames me i know what i'm talking about. i started going to that track about 82 and the crowds and carcount was huge, it stared getting bad in the 90's and is now pathetic. Have a freakshow smash and bam-it and it's a packed house. It don't take a rocket scientist to figure it out......that is your current fan base in orlando.

[backrow]

nothing wrong with speedworld that a foot or two of clay wouldn't fix!

Worth reading twice....Just look at Ocala, Volusia and East Bay. 46 cars for the Florida Touring dirt late model series. Ivedent won the late model feature from the 7th starting spot last night at Volusia. I'm done with asphalt, too boring and absolutely predictable. Start up front and collect the money. Its too expensive anymore to waste money and time on boring shows. Run your 17 divisions that all look the same and follow each other like a snake.

[Mark Keeler]

Ivedent won the late model feature from the 7th starting spot last night at Volusia.

That's funny... Tim Russell did the same thing last night at NSS... started 7th and won!

[backrow]

By far the exception and not the rule.

[Mark Keeler]

The biggest problem in the Orlando area as a whole is the lack of attention span... just drive down 192 or I-drive and see how many things come and go everyday... Everyone has the next big thing and then 6 months later it's closed... FACT: if you had a Crash-A-Rama every other week... it would be dead by the end of the year... the fact that there are only two chances a year to see it, is what makes it what it is...

The Orlando Area is ever-changing and it is tough to keep up with it... why do you think the Theme Parks are always either building new parks or tearing out rides to put in new ones...

This area is probably one of the toughest to be in as far as entertainment goes...

FACT: Advertising costs in Orlando are some of the highest in the Country... what you could spend up in say Ocala or Lake City or Tampa even, wouldn't buy you squat in Orlando.

And if you don't think Orlando is promoting... just in the last two weeks... Rusty has been on three Radio Shows... has been at the Indian River Festival all weekend has visited numerous businesses daily in the Orlando area... and next weekend will be in Melbourne for the Melbourne City Carnival... Is it working??? Who knows... but are they trying.... ABSOLUTELY!

[derf]

here's my opinion,which should ruffle feathers.there are too many classes of cars.the florida mods(and other incarnations) are an interesting concept but thats it.put full bodies on and lets go.
the mini stock are not mini stocks.i remember the days that there were 50-60 pintos,vegas,toyotas,and a few datun 510s.times have changed.there are alot of 4cyl mustangs,hondas,new generation toyotas,nissans etc.
there is no need for 3 or 4 versions of late models.late models,limited late models,sportsman,or whatever other titles there are.it is ridiculous.
granted i do not know all the rules packages and politics with all of this.as a paying fan i think there is alot of resources that are wasted to create so many separate classes and get car count and competition up.
it is another opinion,so i'll express it before it become illegal.

[ovalracer44]

the mini stock are not mini stocks.i remember the days that there were 50-60 pintos,vegas,toyotas,and a few datun 510s.times have changed.there are alot of 4cyl mustangs,hondas,new generation toyotas,nissans etc.

I tried to say this in january on this board and got severely flamed.

Things need to happen to bring costs down in this class. NO TUBE CHASSIS CARS. Cut back on engine rules too. $10,000 motors do not help either.

[Jimmy McKinley]

I don't think I ever said that Orlando wasn't promoting *at all*; if they are, I just don't see or hear it anywheres here locally. Why not a half-page or even a quarter-page ad in the Sentinel every Thursday in the "Auto" section that they put out? In time for Friday and Saturday shows at the track. Why not something, a 30-second ad or something, on "mainstream" radio (Mix 105.1, XL106.7, K92, 101.1 WJRR, 96.5, etc.) *BESIDES* the Crash-a-whatchamacallits?

Don't have the time right now to say everything I want, so I'll leave it at that for now

[derf]

i don't read the orlando sentinel religously(for good reason)when i have there is little to no auto racing coverage.maybe when nascar is in daytona maybe homestead other than that nothing.when i was lived in south florida there wasn't very much media coverage either.