Wrecked a brand new racecar.

[revlimit]

Drivers, I'm curious. We had a driver wreck us this weekend. That's racing. Since there seem to be varying opinions on this, I want to hear what you all think about going for a spot...when it's yours, and when it's not. I know what I consider having the spot and it's NOT getting a nose up to my driver's quarter as he barrels off into the corner. Thanks in advance for your input.

[Boneman]

I followed with interest the battle between Jessica Murphy and Rich Clouser on Saturday night at NSS. As they got near the end of the Goodyear Challenge 100, Murphy was third and Clouser ran forth. Lap after lap Rich tried to pass her on the low side. He would get a foot or two of fender alongside: plenty of steel to turn her around or cause some sort of sparks to fly, yet he backed out every time. I was amazed that someone at one of our local tracks actually showed respect to another competitor.

On the other hand, I think there is clearly no single answer to your question: it is all relative to the situation. Remember, I am strictly a hobbyist and am not driving in a series or a long race like the Goodyear Challenge. I have 15 or 20 laps to get it done. I was sitting there at NSS with Frasson118, and I remarked to him that I would not have lifted like Rich Clouser did. I don't want to knock anyone else, or myself out, but I would have done my damnest to make the late race pass.

I always find it comical when some driver being passed actually expects the passer to back out unless he/she is not up to the drivers door!

[revlimit]

Thanks Boneman. Ironically, that battle between Rich and Murphy was what I was pointing to while venting my frustration after we were taken out. Rich Clouser is as classy a driver on the track as he (and his family) is off of it. Although I agree with you that he had position on the 26 more than once, I can't agree that just pulling down into the low lane qualifies you to rework someone else's racecar. Thanks again.

[Osmosis Jones]

Grandstand steering......

Hmmm.....I'll agree with doing your damndest to make the late race pass. The aggressive bird usually gets at least a part of the worm. I'm sure the inside lane looks very inviting when the man with the flags holds up five fingers.
But there is another way around, grasshopper.

You know where I mean.

I'm talking about that other part of the racing surface some people refer to as: "the outside groove". It's a seldom used piece of real estate that far too many of these impatient, (I'll just nudge him a little bit), non-driving, POS's have never, ever visited or even seen pictures of. Some people have speculated if it's real...or does it only exist in the ancient tales and stories about racers and sportsmanship of a bygone time.

A Theory:
A good indicator that you "have position" when making an inside pass of that pesky car that's getting between you and a checkered flag is if your right front leaves a doughnut on the sheet metal in front of his left rear, then it was your position. If your bumper sliced his tire and sent him spinning backwards up the track, look for a flying steering wheel when you drive by during the ensuing caution period.

An Observation:
If the rear driver (the guy looking to do the rootin') has time to stomp the brakes and not make contact with some part of the left side of the lead driver(the guy who is running his line going into the corner) then he was never in position and did the right thing. If he is that much faster there is always the route that 9 out 10 fans will agree is much more exciting and always appreciated. Take it upstairs and pass him like a real man. Win the race with a clear conscience.


OJ

[Boneman]

Mr. Revlimit, you were with which car?

[john tenney]

Osmosis you are my new hero.

100% agreement. The high groove is there, yeah it takes some driving skill, but isn't that what this is all about?

I've been guilty of dive-bombing - and it wrecked BOTH of our cars. Expensive lesson learned!

[ocalasp76]

Passin'

If my nose is at the other drivers door, I ain't liftin'. On the other side- if there is a nose by my door then I stay in second line.
Passin' outside was my thought at Bronson last Saturday night, but got pinched into the front stretch wall and went airborne. No fault of the other driver, just racin'.
----JIM----

[flvideo]

Hey Jim

You talk about pinched into the wall. We had a thunder truck, the usual docile class get pinched into the wall coming out of turn 4 on the last lap. He was going for the pass on the outside, and he was caught between another truck and the wall. He went over with the drivers side down and he went the whole length of the front straight with his under carrige scraping the wall and the fence. Sparks flying every where. He came under the flag stand and you could see the flag stand shake. I'd imagine craig, the flagman, had to go take care of a laundry problem. I know I would have. I was in that flag stand the race before taping a Figure eight race. If I can figure out how to work the soft ware I have to grab video, I'll pit it on Karnac. I got it all on tape.
Bob......

[georgep]

As a retired flagman the criteria I used for 20+ years for a black flag was:
Right front WHEEL at the driver shoulder. THis would allow the driver of the car on top to SEE the fender or in my case the nose wing of the car on the bottom.
The problem was and will always be the guy on the bottom will "SLIP UP" have to correct and then you have the wreck.
Most of the calls that I made would be put the agressive in the back. Now that being said if I SEE the top man COME DOWN then it is a NO CALL just race for it.
The longer you are on the stand the more you can see when it is an OOPS our just a dumb move.

Just my $.02

[carolwicks]

flvideo

here's one pic of Randys car. the blue one underneath is richard duponts... from what i could see, Randy was on the outside nose to nose with richard and richard moved up squeezing Randy... it was pretty dramatic and its a miracle both climbed out right away. the accident happened as the checkered flag came out.... OH BONEY MARONY!!! i sent the underwear to our flagman GREG, as he had this kinda blank expression on his face as the 2 cars hit the flagstand area. think he needs them more than you!
i heard richard yelling to some people that it was an accident...that he sure didnt want to wreck his car.... hmmmmmmm maybe he accidently squeezed harder than he meant to... well when Randy sees his bull horns got broken maybe Richard will need to move to outer Mongolia til Randy forgets. lol
all in all... there was really NOTHING funny about the wreck when it happened.. it could have been a horrid tragedy... so glad both drivers were unharmed physically. i think the trucks are terminal...
OZ

[flvideo]

10-4 on terminable

I imagine when Randy saw his horns he was ticked all over agin. It was racing, I don't in my wildest imagination think Richard would have done that much damage on purpose. He just got a little exuberent, is that a word, coming out of 4. They were both going for the win. looking at the tape I can't see his wheels turn to the right he just didn't turn left enough. I was glad they were able get out rather unscathed. I can imagine Randy may need the clean laundry too. The track was goin by a few inches from his head. Now that would have been a shot for my incar camera don't you suppose... Bob.......

Ps Carol: I printed your pic of the under side of Randys truck. It'll join the wall of flame in my studio. Bob......

[Todd McCreary]

He would get a foot or two of fender alongside: plenty of steel to turn her around or cause some sort of sparks to fly, yet he backed out every time.

sadly, in spotter classes this is considered enough. Sportsman is a spotter class in FASCAR.




It's a seldom used piece of real estate

what, you didn't see Ron drive last year?




Passin' outside was my thought at Bronson last Saturday night, but got pinched into the front stretch wall and went airborne. No fault of the other driver, just racin'.

you were behind his door coming up on the straight?

i've had guys pinch me when they knew exactly where i was.



The problem was and will always be the guy on the bottom will "SLIP UP" have to correct and then you have the wreck.

back then, yeah that was the problem. nowadays we've got a lot of guys who are going to the bottom ( or the wall ) come hell or high water. it's a great way to keep a faster car behind you. if the faster car let's you get away with it or if the flagman starts showing the black to the guy trying to make the pass.

[revlimit]

Boneman, I'm with the #47 of Davey Gibbs. Don't know if you saw it or not but the car got spun 180 degrees and hit the wall flat. It hit hard enough to rip a couple motor mounts out and break the rest. Also, Davey's left foot came off the brake on impact and sheared the clutch pedal off. Of course there's plenty of other damage to be cared for as well. Davey's sore from head to toe, but thankfully O.K. Anyway, thanks to all that have answered so far. The reason I even posted this thread was that I had some lady at the track tell me that, " In this series, ya gotta give the spot up when the other guy/girl has a fender to your rear quarter." I thought very little of that comment but I thought I would poll the crowd to see if I was missing something.

[georgep]

Boneman, I'm with the #47 of Davey Gibbs. Don't know if you saw it or not but the car got spun 180 degrees and hit the wall flat. It hit hard enough to rip a couple motor mounts out and break the rest. Also, Davey's left foot came off the brake on impact and sheared the clutch pedal off. Of course there's plenty of other damage to be cared for as well. Davey's sore from head to toe, but thankfully O.K. Anyway, thanks to all that have answered so far. The reason I even posted this thread was that I had some lady at the track tell me that, " In this series, ya gotta give the spot up when the other guy/girl has a fender to your rear quarter." I thought very little of that comment but I thought I would poll the crowd to see if I was missing something.

I will bet she never sat in a race car. That works on the street but with a full coverage helmet and any protection on the seat that is a blind spot for the driver.

[Rick Williamson]

It is if your nose is at the numbers on the drivers door. And for sure passing on the outside is best. Few do it anymore. And then others even those that have been around a long time don't want anyone to pass them. So they just block the car behind. There by the fans don't get the show they came to see.