Auburndale 5/21/11

[Iwyn]

Get over it 2 !

I have been involved over 45 years in racing activities from promoter, to official, car builder, car owner, driver, parts supplier plus numerous other race related activities that most here have never been involved in and some do not even know exist. Promoting such events involve more problems and situations coming up than most any person here has ever had to solve and even know about. Most of these decisions have to be made in a split second thought process. My participation has been at many venues east of the Mississippi River. I do presently own 5 race cars so I do know what it takes to maintain and race them.
The accident that happened at the Sat. night event regularly happens at race tracks. Most often it is due to the mistakes made on the race track by racers (A racer made a mistake ?) but at times it happens due to other circumstances beyond any track owner's or promoter's possibility of stopping in advance. It is no different than trying to prevent the upcoming wreck that is going to destroy many $ $ $ $ of equipment.
If any track owner or promoter could predict and prevent such situations then they would definitely not be in the owner or promoter position. They would know they were fighting an almost always losing battle for success. Track owners and promoters do this solely for the love of the sport and hoping to make it better someway and someplace.
Now don't shoot your self in the foot as you do have a guy trying to make racing good for you in some way at this track. He does not have to do it but none of you seem to be doing it so where will you race if no one runs a track ? None of you Bright Stars seem to be promoting and running a track anywhere. Someone has to do it then.
None of the racers can predict and prevent wrecks on the track so why do you think the owner/promoter/ or help can do any better in a split moment decision. I know the official did not want to do it but it happened as do all the other wrecks and accidents at race tracks. All of us go to the highly dangerous race events hoping nothing will ever happen. GET OVER IT ! They always do and will continue to happen as long as we get involved in such dangerous activities.
Excitement and danger is what built racing and other such events into the big attractions they are today. Us racers only want to see good clean races but that is not why 80% of the fans come. They pay to see the danger and excitement of these events ! If you do not think so then how many pictures were taken and posted for all to see !
If not for that then very few seats would be occupied in the grand stands. As I said GET OVER IT ! It is part of racing events. None here are mistake clean so if you live in glass houses do not be throwing stones ! Someday no one will promote races and then what will you do ! How many tracks are now closed compared to open. Far more are closed in the USA than open now and continue to close yearly. Support and help all tracks still racing or in the near future none will still be open. After all no one said you had to be smart to operate a race track but stupid enough to try to only make it better for all at the constant complaints of all the participants. If they knew all the correct answers to all problems then they should be running the tracks ! As said GET OVER IT and be part of the solutions !

[judge357]

I totally agree with Shawn. Iwyn's mindset is the problem and the roadblock to the solution. At 45 years in racing his time may have come to retire and rethink his position in the sport. Most things in this world move forward and improve for the better but it is apparent that Iwyn wants to live in the past and not improve the sport. Good luck. My heart goes out to all those involved in a truly avoidable incident.

[enzfer]

I was at the a-dale meeting at the beginning of the year, when it was brought up about the back pit entrence, (turn 3). At the meeting it was relayed to the group, that due to liability insurance reasons, that spot on the track(turn 3) would only be used for exiting the track, period. Why were cars going out from that spot?? (turn 3) Lack of proper operations. The same thing happened at a legends car race earlier in the year, Also 5-10 laps before the big crash, they tried to send wayn anderson out in front of the field, under caution. So between all of these, this is the 3rd time that I know of that this has happened, why??? the track was aware of this probem in feburary?? I would think this would not ever happen again, but it has happened 3 time this year, and I am sure it has happened even more times, with out crashes?? but close calls. this is gross neglagence on the tracks part, period total miss managment, i dont care if cars are aloud to come back on the track or not, if they come back it has to be within a safe manor. this was not a racing accident, it had nothing to do with racing, period.....

[Darren]

enzfer, with what you are writing, then it also becomes drivers responsibility to be safe.

[mr south 59]

I have to say that I feel bad for all parties involved. We know what it is like having to put a clip on you car due to poor judgement of another driver.

BUT. We have had the flagman wave our car onto the track when there is no way in he'll my car could pull out and blend in. I don't care when a flagman is telling my car to pull out onto the track. I (the spotter) tell my car when to pull out. Not a clueless flagman. It is the teams responsibility to make sure your car gets onto the track safely. No the corner workers. He is just telling that you are allowed to go not when to go.

I read somewhere that the spotter was telling the driver not to go. Sounds like to me that the driver just made a poor decision to pull out on the track when he wasn't cleared by his spotter. I would bet he wont pull out again until he is cleared by his spotter. Nothing more nothing less. JMO

[judge357]

As a point of clarification, it is my understanding that in Florida the spotters do not have full view of every area of every short track down there. Consequently, when a driver pulls up to the flag man to enter the track, the spotter may not even be able to see their car. Therefore the driver must depend on the judgement of the flagman. Is this correct? My next question I would like to pose to the drivers is as follows: when you pull up to the track and the flagman waves you out on to the track, do you do what he says or do you wait to hear from your spotter who may or may not even be able to see you. I would like to hear a little feedback.

[mr south 59]

I don't think that is a problem at any track in Florida. Espeically at a-dale. You can stand in the spotters area and almost hit any corner with a rock. The spotter can see the whole track without a problem.

I did have a problem like that at Sonia where I could not see my car when he pulled up to the track entrance but I could see the whole track and I still cleared him to enter the track. The ASA official went up to my driver and said
"I already told you to go on the track 3 times". My driver said are you going to fix my car when I pull out and it gets totaled??? He said "no way". My drives said " than I will wait till my spotter says I can go. Thanks".

After what happened in the fastruck series at Ocala when the track worker waved a truck across the track and he didn't make it and totaled 2 trucks we don't listen to the corner workers anymore. The worker at Ocala said that he "thought that the truck would have got across the track a lot quicker than that. Oh well, sorry about that".

[tararizzer4]

probably would have been a good idea to wait for your spotter to say when to go but the official was flagging the car to go out onto the track (we were sitting right in the stand next to them) he was doing it for everyone letting them know when the track was cleared and ok to return he didnt just have the wreck with Sergi he also almost wrecked Wayne Anderson's car earlier laps while they were under caution luckily Wayne stopped barely in time to scratch the paint..

Either way whoever was wrong they really shouldnt have even been letting cars enter from the exit ramp they should have been entering at turn 4. Hopefully Rex will correct this for next time so its much safer other than that it was a pretty good race.

Also feel pretty bad for Anthony Sergi not only did his car get trashed along with others but while he was sitting there right after the wreck people seemed to be yelling and screaming unnecessary things at him, kid was pretty upset and very apologetic from what I saw... you live and learn

[mr south 59]

Yah Tara. It was a bad deal. But you can't blame anybody but the team. And it is a team deal. If you don't know if the track is clear. You don't pull out. Period. That corner worker probably thought he was going to get up to speed a lot quicker. That's the problem. A corner worker has no idea how fast your car can get up to speed and blend in. Only the driver and team does. So it's only the driver and teams problem.

I wouldn't call it any different if it was the rookie or Wayne. Wayne shouldn't have gone without spotter clearance either. It was probably good it was under yellow for Wayne or it could have been worse.

Tara. We got your pics from a-dale this morning from your dad. We don't race together for a while so tell Chase hi. Congratulations on Citrus. Go get'm girl!!!

[openwm53]

I wasnt there

but I have raced the track several times. If and when you ENTER the track at the EXIT of the track you are totally blind. Then its a 90 degree turn and you are rite in the racing groove. Im sure the drivers involved on the track going full speed #@#! themselves and everyone is lucky that is was only cars hurt. From what i understand he was entering under green and depending on were you pit its the fastest way to get on the track without driving around the hill to turn 4 were you can see all the cars coming at you. You can actually get on the track and have enouph room to stop and wait if need be. Very bad deal for all involved........No one should enter that track there.....NO ONE....jmo

[Tim]

Mr South, spoken like someone who didn't have his car torn up...had your driver been Sergi you would not be on here apologizing for him or his spotter. You missed the fact that he was allowed to enter from the exit. Or even enter AT ALL under green flag conditions.

As a different example, if his spotter tells him to go and the flagman tells him no should he still go??? Who's in charge? The spotter or the official? The spotter is the least responsible person on the racetrack...

By experience, Rex probably did the right thing by staying away on Sat night. Nothing he could have said would have made anything better with the adrenaline running.....I just hope phone calls were made today...and things were made right, he had good momentum with his late model races.

[Boneman]

Racing can be a real bitch. On the surface, it sounds like a track employee made a bad judgement, but I will also assume that we don't have the whole story.

To all of you who have written that this is a legal matter, or that "the track owes the drivers", allow me to respectfully disagree, and to suggest that your pull head out of you a$$. Take that issue to court, and kiss our local sport goodbye. Regardless of guilt, innocence, right or wrong, the tracks would go broke defending against this crap, or rapidly shut to avoid the problems.

If you litagate this, why stop here? Are there any other possibilities where an error by a track employee might cause you harm? What if you are leading and the flagman fails to give the move-over flag to a competitor, and that car wrecks you when you lap him. What is the scorer makes a mistake and you start out of position after a yellow? If you get wrecked by the guy behind you, then it is the scorer's fault and you should sue them. Does any of this make sense to you?

One of the complaints is the Rex Guy didn't appear in the pits. Was he on the property that night? Does it make sense to you to go wandering into a problem? It doesn't to me. A rational manager will handle this during the week when the passions have subsided a little.

Based on the half story that is out there, I would fire that flagman, both as a symbolic gesture and hopefully to avoid a repeat, and I'd make very clear the procedure by which cars enter and leave the racing surface.

[eagle]

to all the race was under GREEN AND the cars are single single file .. no car should be allowed to enter under green....NOT AT THAT TRACK FROM TURN THREE .. THAT I THINK IS THE RACING GROVE.
REX DID THE RIGHT THING BY NOT BEING AROUND.BUT WERE CALLS MADE YET ? THANK GOD FOR ALL OF THE SAFTY EQUIPMENT BUILD INTO THE CARS .. NOW HOW ABOUT SOME SAFTY FROM THE TRACK AND FLAG MEN .

[colonelc]

Have to add my two cents

Having been involved in racing as a flagman and corner worker for more than 15 years, and having some personal knowledge of the track and its configuration I know that that rule has in the past at Abdale that (1) no one enters the track under green flag conditions, and further that (2) no one is allowed to return to the track from the turn 3 location as that is an exit only.
I do not have any knowledge of who the corner worker was that allowed Sergi to enter but ultimately as far as I can see he bares the great degree of responsibility although as far as a legal matter liability "may" be attached to the track owner, but if it can be proven in court that the track worker violated the tracks policies, that worker and not the owner would be held responsible. I really hope for the sake of the sport and for Rex that this does not take place. As relates to the question of who is at fault, some of you believe the track official, some the spotter, and some the driver. I believe that all three have some responsibility, I must say that from having driven also, that the worker at turn three would certainly have the highest degree of the blame, due to the the fact that you are entering from a 90 degree angle to the racing and as any of you who have ever worn a "hans" device know it virtually impossible to turn your head enough to see oncoming traffic from that location, so the flagman (corner) worker has to be the eyes of the driver and further he should have enough experience to know how fast a race car can get up to speed and must allow enough space for that to occur safely. (ULTIMATELY HE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO ENTER UNDER GREEN FLAG CONDITIONS). That being said the spotter should also relay to his driver that there is not enough room to safely get back onto the racing surface, lastly it is the driver's responsibilty to enter the track at the correct location which from my experience is at turn 4. (I have seen drivers enter the pits for tire changes etc. and return to turn three to get back on the track a little quicker, they should be waived over to turn 4, but I have also seen them try to get back out by blowing past the corner worker at location without waiting for any direction). The point I am trying to make is that everybody in this sport knowing the dangers and the limitations of driver's, equipment, etc. should work as a team to see to it that this type of situation does not occur, and in this case, it may in fact be a case of a little carelessness on all the parties involved. I am very glad that no one was seriously injured, I feel badly that so much equipment was destroyed, and although very expensive, it can be replaced whereas a driver cannot. It is time to consider how we make our sport as safe as we can by working together to see that this type of incident does not happen again. WE MIGHT NOT BE AS LUCKY THE NEXT TIME.

[eagle]

I Think That The Track Dosent Want The Cars To Go All The Way Around To Turn Four Most Of The Slm Are Parked Close To That Entrance.
More Harm Could Be Done By A Driver Hot Footin It To Turn 4.

I Didnt See A Post Fron Any Of The Cars Involed About Sueing Anyone All The B.s. From People That Are Not Involed.and Have Nothing Better To Do.

I Respect All Comments That Are Written To Improve The Ytrack.

Let The Cars Involed Work This Out With Rex
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