I thougt this deserved a thread of it's own...

[Tim]

My hats off to Wayne, Dick and Alan. While what they did was not the popular choice for some, they did it because nobody else was even considering acting on the issue. This thread was in resonse to their KARNAC nterview. My comments are not to put the entire load on the driver, it's just to help them understand that they do have a part to play in the equation of success. The greatest promoters in the world are nothing without a product to sell..........


Great job to all three of these guys and their team. I wasn't sure about them messing with the spec motors but as a tour they have to be able to tech. It is a neccessary evil that I am sure they wished they didn't have to deal with as they run the motors themselves. Hope everyone gives this a shot. This whole deal sounds like alot of fun to be had by all. They absolutely get it. It doesn't matter who owns the series or runs the series. Without racers there is no series. Without promoting your drivers, nobody knows who they are and all the advertising in the world won't bring a new fan to a nameless race.

I encourage every driver out there to do what they have to do to promote themselves. Wayne has fans that will come if he is advertised at any track in this state. It's not in the hundreds but he still draws people. I am sure that he doesn't know them all but at some point in time he has shaken their hand, talked with them for a few minutes and from that moment on, while he may not remember them by name, they will never forget his. They will attend every race that they can if they know he is running it because they feel as if they know someone in that race Tracks don't have fans, racers do. Race fans are not born, at some point in their life something happened to make them take a look at racing. Be that "something" and make them a fan.

[ocalasp76]

Good post Tim and very accurate as well. I have fans who call or e-mail me to see where I'm racin' and when. Not as many as the Andersons or the others, but they want someone to be loyal to and show up to encourage them. If they don't like a particular track, they let me know that as well, but still come anyway.
If the track makes a bad call on me I think they get more upset than I do.
I even have a few racers I follow if not racing somewhere else that night.
-JIM-

[Jane]

It is the racers who bring the fans and not the tracks. That is why it is so important for tracks to go out in the community, take some of those racers and their cars, and introduce them to everyone. I know Rusty and I did that quite a few times over the years at Orlando and each time, we would find someone who would take that free tickets and come because they had spent time talking to one of those racers who gave their time to help. They felt like they knew someone at the track and they could cheer them on and not sit there like a bump on a log and bored too death.

One of the reasons I started floridadirttracknews.com is to introduce the dirt racers to the racing world. Working with karnac for so many years, I realized that everyone knew quite a few of the asphalt racers but little was known about the dirt racers. So I took a leap of faith and started floridadirttracknews in hopes that I could introduce the dirt world to the asphalt fans since this is what I have done for many years with karnac.

Every chance that Wayne, Dick and Alan get the chance or opportunity to have some of the racers out in the community, they need to do it. Let the people get up close to the racers and talk to them and just maybe they will get fans for their series who want to come watch that certain one racer that stole their heart.

It is definitely a two way street for both the racers and the fans. The racers need to support the series to make it work and the series needs to take it out to the communities to get the fans. Any sports bar and grill, McDonald's, fairs or festivals, whatever they can find that will let the cars and drivers come for a few hours and do a meet and greet, do it. I am sure there will be a few drivers willing to give up a few hours to help the series and to help the series get fans. If not, then they really don't want a series.

We use to have a lady here on Merritt Island that owned a race shop - you know shirts, jackets, cars, etc. Each weekend, one way or another, she would somehow get a couple of racecars and drivers to part out front of her shop and bring the people in. They helped her, she helped them. I guarantee that alot of kids made their parents stop, go back, so they could see those racecars. She may sell something, she may not, but it did work.

Ron Dicandio, who races at Orlando SpeedWorld, takes racers and cars to local Brevard County Schools. We give out free tickets to come to the races to the kids and let them really, really look at the cars, talk to the drivers, and ask questions. They go home excited with some news that their parents haven't had before as they watch their excited kids tell about the racecars at school. Hopefully a few of them will take those free tickets and go to the races with their kids and cheer on the drivers that the kids met that day. And maybe they won't but at least Ron tried to bring in new fans for the racers.

Like Tim and Jim both said, it is the drivers who bring in the fans and I wish the new series all the luck in the world and hope they take the cars and drivers to the fans so they do have drivers to cheer for.

[andre]

It is the racers who bring the fans and not the tracks.

I would say it's the whole package that brings the fans.

Take any serie and follow them. One track it's pack solid, next week, other track it's so so. Same serie, drivers, so what's wrong with that picture???

In order to attrack race fans, you need the whole package.

If your Late Model serie goes where it's normally empty, dull show, no car count and so on, you might have a decent crowd Bcuz the big guns are in town, but you won't pack the place solid. But on the other hand, if the serie is at a track where they already have 2,000 fans weekly, it will be a major sell out.

[Old Sunshine Fan]

Wayne has fans that will come if he is advertised at any track in this state. It's not in the hundreds but he still draws people..[/I]

You are so right, However, it sure lets people down when someone is reported to be racing at a certain track and then "Cancel Out" at the last minute. Makes you wonder if the track used said driver as a pitch knowing full well the driver won't be there (makes you wonder if said driver agreed with the scam).

Perfect example this week... Wayne called to say he couldn't make it (Sat Night).... wonder how many people didn't get the word and went anyway because they still thought he'd be there?

[crobinson76]

its really a shame the drivers an some good folks from around have to make a series to run there cars so few tracks left you would think they would put there tracks together an make a series they all could win with an not try to race over each other as they all do the racers have all spent the money to make the tracks look good now the tracks need to support them for a change an work for the racers say it aint so

[Tim]

Here is my point....

When I was at Columbia, Mark Martin decided he was going to debut Ricky Carmicheal in his first race in Lake City. I didn't advertise at all. Not a penny. At a track where the normal attendance (at the time) was 250-300, it went to 1300 on a regular Sat night show which for Columbia is at capacity. I had camper parking on Fri night. He and Mark brought the crowd by promoting themselves and I was greatful for it.

I would pay them show money to do it anywhere!

Here is where I'm going to hurt some feelings....I have ALL the respect in the world for the guys that work on their cars all week and come to the track on Fri or Sat and race to win. But as a business, what did you bring? $150 to the back gate? $10 in profit for fuel? $0 in profit for tires because that IS a tracks points fund? And you want to the track to sell you to someone who was already there anyways....If you want money, then show them the money (value) for having you there. Bring your own fans!

Short track racing has become a charity business. Sponsorships are gained because they want to be involved not because they will gain from it. If you want to get a true sponsor, show them you can move more of their product. Stop begging for it and show them a value!

I'm sure I'll get ripped for this but as a marketing person, I don't see any other way.

[JackTripper]

You're a marketing person yet you freely admit to not marketing? You want the drivers to bring their own fans? Will you pay the drivers more if they bring a lot of their fans? I doubt it.

Am I missing something here? You're basically saying you're not going to market drivers - nor did you when Ricky Carmichael made his debut? How did that phone call go, "Hey Mark Martin, how's it going? What? You want to debut Ricky Carmichael? That's cool...but can you get the word out too? I can't be bothered...that's right I'm the marketing guy..."

As a business - I'll tell you what the drivers brought you - cars. Without cars (and that's often been the case when I've been at Lake City - no cars) you don't have a show to promote.

I hope I'm just reading your post wrong, but it takes collaboration from all parties - the promoter and the drivers. Very rarely have I met drivers that won't help out promoters with some advance public relations to help fill the stands, but it's a two way street. You as the promoter should have media connections in your back pocket, so line up some outlets and then reach out to the drivers to help promote YOUR track.

[Tim]

WTF??? Hey Jack! When you write the check to keep a race track open and then listen to racers who tell you what you owe them.....yes there is a GAP in the communication process.

While I haven't wrote the check I have answered to the person that did. If what I am saying is too brutal for the racers to here...then sell them all and build houses.

Jack, every race track has opportunities to show cars and drivers. As a former promoter I found myself begging to get drivers to come and show. But in respect to some.....Henry Hodges, Doyle Boatwright, Jason Garver, Eddie and Nevin Gainey, Ronnie and Fain Skinner, Tim Russell, Kevin Durden, Patrick Williams, Kevin Dicks, John Roling. all I had to do was make a call and they never questioned me and showed up! I would have called you guys more but I just didn't want you guys to feel as if I was taking advantage of you. Thanks for all you did and I hope you and your sponsors benefited from it.

[Tim]

Oh yeah, Jack as a sprint car promoter as you seem to be... is this the attitude you are going to take when approaching the tracks for races? I believe in what you are doing. It's a good thing! I have said to you before, we need 10,000 more of you and 10,000 of me.

[Jane]

It takes alot of leg work, mouth work, hard work to make anything work including racing. Drivers need to be willing to give some of themselves and tracks need someone who will ask them to give. It is a two way street therefore you need someone in that department that knows the racers and cares about the track, series, etc.

Sure, having some big name come in does help but it is the little names and the every weekend guys who have to make people want to come and see them race. That means go out and promote yourself and your track and if you are lucky, 10 out of every 100 will come and cheer you on. I have seen it work and it does work but it takes everyone involved to make it work.

You can debate this all you want but the bottom line is you need a good working relationship with your racers and the track. They need to feel needed and appreciated and that their being there every weekend is appreciated very much. If you do that, in return, they will come when you call them to help.

[Tim]

Very well said Jane. Thank you!

Point being...you don't have to have a camera in your face or a microphone in your mouth to promote racing.....nobody in this business has the money to afford that. We will have to do this one meeting at a time.

[JackTripper]

Well, that is the attitude I've taken to tracks when trying to promote sprint car races - collaboration. While I'm not the promoter and I'm simply with a team that travels, it behooves my team to help out the track promoter because if no one shows up, we're not going back. And when I've gone to tracks to work together on promoting, it's been a two way street - you guys line up your local media and I'll get my driver and some others to help you out.

I've come across tracks that turned a deaf ear to us helping them out and some that were all over it. That's the difference between packing the place and being able to shoot a shotgun through the stands and not hit anybody. We raced in front of both this past year. The first was awesome and the second was depressing.

I'm just disagreeing that drivers have to bring their own fans. The opportunity always exists to make new fans, but there has to be collaboration between the tracks, drivers and touring series, when they are involved. Short track racing needs to have all parties come together for the common good, in my humble opinion.

[Tim]

Jack, you and I have always agreed....we just took different roads to get there. Like you I just want everyone to understand that the responsibility lies on both sides. The tracks will spend thousands to advertise....but you have to give them SOMETHING to advertise. Not just a race.

[JackTripper]

When I put the bumper to you and wreck you Friday night at the Lil 500, will you still be my friend?