Reading some of you guy's post has got me thinking

[sunshinestateracing1]

Want to get you guys thoughts on this and with this poll. With the vast opinons on this board this should give a fair shake to this idea.

Do you guys think that when a caution is caused that both cars should go to the rear of the feild or just one car ( the one found to be at fault).

For argument sake lets say it dose not make a difference when in the race it is because really it should not matter if it is the first lap or the last lap fair is fair and rules are rules.

So if you were making the rules would you send all cars to rear of feild or just the one who you think caused it.

Thanks for your ideas and opinons

Robert

[Winger]

Who's going to determine who caused the caution? That is one of the main issues, I believe. As an example. a few weeks ago there was an accident right in front of myself and two officials. All 3 of us saw it differently. Week after week I see these calls made by officials that are trying to do the best they can. However, many of them are judgment calls and who really knows what the driver is thinking. Personally, I think the car causing the caution to come out should go to the rear, regardless if it's their fault or not. If the officials are sure there was dirty driving involved and a spin was caused intentionally, then they need to black flag that driver. However, who's to say if there was a little brake checking and a spin after contact to cause the contender to go to the rear? Or was it an intentional attempt to spin the guy out? Maybe I'm old fashioned and set in my ways. I'd never seen officials determining races until I came to Florida. Even Nascar doesn't do this.
I can't really vote in your poll. I don't think it right that someone has to determine who was wrong. It can't be done fairly.

[sunshinestateracing1]

I agree

Winger I know that is why I think the really only fair way is to send both to the rear I know it is probaly not the popular responce but to take human error out of it is probaly the only fair way to do it. I agree with you that three people looking at the same wreck will see it differently.

My opinon is that all to back is the only real fair way but I know my opions are not allways the best or right ones just wanted to see what others thought

[Winger]

My opinon is that all to back is the only real fair way but I know my opions are not allways the best or right ones just wanted to see what others thought

What is this? Someone admitting they're opinions might not be the best or correct? What are you doing on this board? Hehe, just kidding. (Have to put that in there or someone will think I'm being cruel.)
The problem I see with sending both to the back is a scenario like this. I've seen this happen a few times lately also. 2 cars running nose to tail, 1st car loses it on his own but 2nd car is close. The spotter sends the 2nd car to the rear and 1st car get his position back. The 2nd car never touched the first but the spotter couldn't see that from his angle. 2nd car stops and talks to officials but is over ruled. In the meantime, time is wasted and show is slowed up. Even with both cars going to the rear, the 2nd car is penalized for the 1st cars error and the spotters error. He's mad. Well you know what happens from here on.
BTW, I'm never wong. I'm alway wight. LOL

[Edm]

Thats a great question, another age old debate. When judgment and opinion are thrown into the equation there is no right answer. My opinion you have to protect the leader from being blatantly taken out, but other then that both should get sent to the rear. Common sense plays a huge part in this and makes it a difficult call. It will never be the right call for everyone, but it should always be consistent no matter who the drivers are.

[vintagegarage]

The correct answer isn't even one of the choices.. The correct answer is that the guy who spins should go to the rear or if he keeps going, he can blend in, and the guy who "caused" him to spin should only go to the rear or be penalized in the very rare case of rough riding, like in NASCAR. A bumper tap that gives the actor up front the chance to spin out and play the officials, (when he really could have avoided the spin and lost a position or two), and laughingly send the guy behind him to the rear, while the actor gets his place back is what goes on now at several tracks.

This should be a vote among the fans.. I don't think the drivers should get a vote. 90% of the drivers don't stand a chance of winning unless they are able to play to officials and continuously send the fast cars to the rear. That 90% will win the vote every time, guys trying to pass will continually be sent to the rear, and the fans suffer.

A few weeks ago, at Bronson, I saw a crash involving two pickup trucks.. one rolled gently on it side. The officials tried to send one to the rear, and give the other it's place back. After a lot of wawawawawaing at the start finish line, I guess they decided that they couldn't be sure of what to do, so they decided to give both trucks their spots back.. hahaha.. that is a fourth choice.. the reasoning was never explained to the fans, so I don't really know what happened.

Help me out on this.. I read and re-read the rules for Citrus, and it looks to me that rules say cars involved in the accident go to the rear. I don't see anywhere where it says that any of the drivers get their place back, but that is the norm there when there is any contact. If somebody can find that in the rules, I'd appreciate them pointing me to the rule, other than a rule that says the officials can do whatever they like. They do have a rule against contact, so I guess that might lead to an instant penalty for anybody trying to pass for "rough riding", but that's no excuse to give the guy who is the best actor his place back..

Since the correct answer isn't even a choice, I voted to send both to the rear.

[georgep]

From the flag stand after 20+ years this what I did.
Car spins car to rear
Car is SPUN BOTH to rear, stops the actor in his tracks
Car causes 2nd spin by contact, Have a nice day see you next week
Car spins or Stops to draw a caution, to the pits so that an OFFICIAL can see if the car is safe that always takes a lap.
CARS spin all to rear, BUT car spins to avoid they go back to their spot.
I survived all those years and like Wild Child I was told how dumb I was BUT I was always just as DUMB for everyone, THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

[Edm]

r Stops to draw a caution,

As a fan I hate seeing this. Every time I go to VSP someone does this and they are allowed to continue. I believe they should be penalized a lap for this.

[Winger]

Vintagegarage, that's exactly what I was trying to say.
Darn, I wish people could read my mind so they know what I mean. Maybe that's not such a good idea either.
EDM, I agree with you also about stopping on the track. It seems to be a bigger problem on dirt tracks and it happens every where.

[AJ14]

Might as well keep life as simple as possible for officials . There is no way that an accurate decision can be made about who was responsible for a two or more car spin or crash . So make it easy on everybody , if an incident takes place that doesn't bring out a caution , everyone involved gets back onto the racing surface and blends in as best they can . Any incident that causes a yellow , ALL cars involved go to the rear in the order they were running when the incident happened .
Anyone who slows or stops on the racing surface to bring out a caution loses one lap . That goes for tires going down , spins , bouncing off the wall etc . If you spin and can't get your car restarted before the caution comes out , you lose a lap . Period . And these rules would need to be enforced . I know , but i can dream can't i ?

[Bigbuck]

Tough call

But if the rule is ALL cars involved then it ALL cars involved. Not saying I like it but a rule IS a rule, the trick to the whole thing is BE consistant. It has NOT been consistant, notice i didnt say Intentionally not consistant, i said not consistant. I wouldnt want the job, I'm sure I'd miss some calls too. But when a truck obviously hits another, causingn the other to sipn, he gets hit head on, then shouldnt the truck that hit him be sent to the rear?? Maybe I'm missing something. The tech guys do a good job, but who is REALLY making this call, the flag man? Someone stationed around the track? Someone in the tower? NOONE can see it all all the time, I don't care who you are. How many times has the caution come out and you say what is that for? I know I have, I dare say every caution theres someone that didnt see what happened. My point, what if it had been your job at that time to "make the call?" I hear the flagman makes the call, i dont care if he's GOD, he cant se it all all the time. It needs to be 3-4 people together to make the call. Maybe there should be volunteers fronm the stands, differant ones each week, free adm. put them in the tower, 3 or 4 and let them make the call, differant fans each week drawn from a pool of volunteers? I don't know, but it is NOT consistant now and this would eliminate fans, yes like me, from complaining about the officials. I think the offic ials usually do the best they can. Other than the night........ sorry i wony go there!!

[soupkitchen]

I Live up north now and when I first went to Kalamazoo Speedway they handled this problem in a unique way. If car A turns car B around for whatever reason car A comes back around and stops at the finish line to talk to an official. Car A is not required to go to the back by instruction of official, but in the name of sportsmanship he will offer to the official he will voluntarily go to the rear, car b retains his spot. They kind of make a big production about it with the announcer clearly pointing out Car A is going to talk to the official and make his determination and what it does it creates some drama because by this time the whole crowd is waiting for the "verdict', and it's like all eyes are on you so 10 outta 10 times car A is going to voluntarily go to the back, this is announced, he gets applause and cheers for being a good sport and racing resumes. It's kind of interesting because the whole place is like a silent jury and it takes heat off the officials because the driver makes the call, but it would be considered real uncooth if a driver stops at the start/finish and wants his spot back.

[Wildchild]

Well, It use to be the Flagman who made the calls, with help from 2 or 3 spotters. Like you say One person cannot see every thing, it still was up to the Flagman to make the final call. Now the calls are being made by a race director who is in the tower. Now I'm not saying that this is better or worse,just a different person making the final call.

Wildchild

[Todd McCreary]

my problem with the track assigning fault is that there are so many people who really don't understand what they are looking at.

in a Strictly race a couple of years ago, i got under a guy coming off of two and he tried to chop me down but i was already up to his door. so i gave him a door slam back for the door slam he gave me.

then i did something stupid. i continued making my pass. we got to turn 3 and he turned hard left, hooking my RR quarter and spinning me towards the wall. the track threw the yellow, put me to the back and let him keep his spot. at a track where they regularly put "at fault" cars to the back.

i was completely baffled. 99.99% of the time, if the car on the inside turns towards the wall at the end of the straight it's because the guy on the outside was trying to wreck the hell out of him. even if you didn't see the other stuff going on down the back stretch, how do you not know this? by their "normal" rulings, i should have been given my spot back and he should have been put to the back.

a good rule of thumb about whether or not you're "far enough forward" to claim the lane when attempting to pass is simply which way the car getting passed turns. if the car in front gets turned across the passers nose, the guy in back wasn't far enough forward. if the car in front gets bounced away from passing car, the car in back had the spot. oddly, this corresponds to your nose getting approximately to the door of the car getting passed, which means he can see you and should be aware of you.

spotter racers are so used "claiming the lane" without even getting up to the rear tire that they've got it screwed up for everybody.