Orlando SpeedWorld Winter Series starts out with 81 cars

[Winger]

I was only asking for clarification and appreciate the reply from Jane. I had forgot it was a "for fun" event. I don't have a problem with this as long as it's advertised that way, and this is.

With that said, I think Jerry is trying to make a different point as to racing in Florida as a whole. His point, as there being too many classes, should be taken to heart by the powers that be. If a choice is offered to racers of 12 different classes, you will have racers in all classes. If they have a choice of 6 different classes the same thing can be said. Now if you have 84 cars racing in 12 classes you will have an average of 7 per race. If you still have the same 84 cars but only 6 classes you will have 14 cars per class. Still a small number of cars per class but at least you are headed in the right direction. Racers that want to race will race whatever class they can afford. They don't need the choice of 3 or more classes in their budget range. Provide them with 1 or 2 classes per budget and you will have more cars per class and fewer classes. Most spectators would rather watch a 20 or 30 car race versus watching a 7 car race. This is by no means meant as a criticism of what OSW is doing. I think it's great for the racers that are participating. I don't think it's a good way of attracting fans and may probably discourage new fans. But, that isn't the purpose of this series. This is meant to criticize all the tracks for not working together to get a common set of rules and improving the racing in all of Florida.

[Frasson118]

Thanks Winger... finally somebody got it!

Jane... you're taking this far too personal. I didn't see anyone, including myself saying "how wrong you were to offer something llike this". It wasn't said.

Learn to accept some things as a suggestion, instead of feeling like everything is a criticism. Maybe... just maybe... listening to some outside suggestions might actually help.

[Osmosis Jones]

Beg Pardon?

Whaddya mean "finally"?

I got it from the git go.....
It didn't take a rocket scientist, either......

Just someone with an open mind.


Mark....buddy....ya gotta stop taking so much stuff personally.
Except for the doughwads who have no clue about what it costs(dollar wise AND time wise) to assemble and produce a decent program each week. You should let those idiots comments roll off yer back, too. You go above and beyond with your stuff so don't let a few whack jobs get ya down.


OJ

[OrlandoGraphix]

I understood what Jerry was saying from the start... I just felt like it was taking focus away from what was really going on there yesterday... I even said that he brought up an interesting idea... it was what followed that I took exception to...

And if you think about it... they did a 'bracket' sort of thing... running Bandolero's together... JR Stocks together... and so on... (back to my point that if he had been there, he would have seen that)

I just felt like there was so much positive yesterday... and the last 2/3 of Jerry's post took away from that...

I'll keep smiling and doing what I'm doing...

I appreciate the kind words in regards to the Programs.

[Jane]

I am not upset Jerry nor mad nor over-sensitive but I just see things differently than some. I just had a whole class (10 cars) call to see if they could race at Orlando because their home track just switched to dirt and they don't want to race dirt. Now, where do these 10 drivers go? You want less classes, more cars. Do you work with the drivers who spend all the money to race or do you work with the fans on what they want?? Yes, you need both to make a track work but don't the drivers deserve as much concern and care as the fans. The difference between alot of us is I see both sides because I have been on both sides. You have to take care of both.

[Frasson118]

Jane... just curious as to which class wants to now run at Orlando, because Ocala has switched to dirt? Wouldn't it be better to say "Here's our rules for ______ division. With minor changes, your cars could join this division that we already have". You'd be helping both sides with that approach. They don't run any division there that is radically different than what OSW does.

[Jane]

Jerry - it was a class which does not exactly fit our Super Stock or Sportsman rules but kindof in-between. But that is up to tech and Rusty if they want to have them change or let them race as they are. Remember, not everyone can afford to change things on their cars always. But like I said, that is up to tech and Rusty as to what they do. But I do understand your point and their's.

[Todd McCreary]

Jerry - it was a class which does not exactly fit our Super Stock or Sportsman rules but kindof in-between.

probably the "Street Stock" class that's so common on the west coast tracks. if you look, FASCAR actually has "Street Stock" in it's rule book ... for Lake City. most of those guys can travel fairly easily, it's actually FASCAR which is oddball.

[Jane]

Now Todd, are you saying I am an oddball????

See ya

[john tenney]

10 bucks says that post gets deleted (and it should!!!)


Like the PRI show has anyone to teach how to run a track - lol

[Nickel and Dime]

I just love it when people think that anything that is not a SLM or Mod is a junker. I guess you won't be attending Bronson in 2008, primarily "junkers" scheduled. And all this time I thought they were the support classes.

[Frasson118]

Why "should" it get deleted? Just because he has an opinion that differs from yours and the track? He didn't personally bash anyone, didn't name call... but apparently he ruffled the feathers of you guys that run "support" classes. Racetracks need support classes, but not 5 or 6 of them! And if that's mainly what Bronson will be running next year, they will have an awful tough time of putting butts in the seats.

Look at OSW's weekly Saturday program. Filled with "support" classes, and from what I hear, lot's of good racing going on. The crowd that pays to see it?... not many at all.

Every racetrack needs a mixture of headliners and support classes. They can't afford all top classes, and they can't get a crowd with all support classes.

If his post gets deleted for what he said, it will prove the point that OJ was making... if your opinion differs, you will be censored for it. So much for free speech!

Nobody has ever been kicked off of here for criticizing Frasson118, but God forbid if anyone has something to say about a track owner/Promoter or their policies.

Kind of a double standard isn't it?

[john tenney]

You need to read the constitution. The concept of "Free Speech" is greatly misunderstood.

Here: I'll quote it for you:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I don't see anything in there that says you can't delete negative and hostile posts. Congress hasn't made a law on it anyway!

[Frasson118]

"and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

If I'm reading this correctly, and Fascar/Karnac/racing in general, is the "government", why aren't I (or anyone else) allowed to post a "grievance"?

Just because it doesn't specifically say that we CAN'T be censored, you think it means we should be if you feel it's appropriate?

If I was King of Karnac, would it be fair if I windexed YOUR opinion if I don't like it?

Sorry John... I've liked everything you've posted on here, but don't jump on the Happyland Express now. If you expect this site to be all cheerleading, cis-boom-bah for our local tracks crap, either you or I is in the wrong place! This is SUPPOSED to be about opinions... good and bad (without personal attacks, which I do agree with).

You have yours, I have mine, Eagle has his... don't start thinking that his/our opinion has to go, just because it doesn't match with yours.

[Todd McCreary]

sorry Frassy, John is right about the US Constitution not being applicable here. the constitution constrains the Federal government, it has nothing to say about whether or not private citizens or organizations can or cannot restrict speech that they find offensive on their premises.

and "Government" is the elected representatives of the people. you don't get to redefine that to suit your purposes.

even if Karnac was a "government", i'm sure no associate of Karnac has ever been a signatory to the US Constitution and, as such, would not be bound by it.

not that i approve of all of the post deletions that we've seen. locking threads, editing profanity, suspending or banning posters, i don't have a problem with any of that. but if a thread or post is just deleted it cannot serve as an example of what is not considered permissible on the board.