what a joke

[Edm]

I have never heard anyone address this question. Why don't they race Sunday afternoons? I don't know what other opinions are but I don't see anything wrong with it.

[oldyeller]

It isn't Orlando's fault, but for those of us who live west, toll roads are the only real way to get there, and if i tow my open trailer, i'm out $16 in tolls. that's not gonna bankrupt me, but it's kind of a tiebreaker if im deciding where to go.

crasharama crowds have, for years, proven that people know the track exists, and how to get there. one of the central problems is that the racing just isnt that good... the track is notoriously one-groove, the main reason the PRI managment lost interest in that annual race. repaving would help but would cost a fortune, traction compound has to be water-based, and only lasts until the first hard rain. bombers and legends can pass, but for faster classes, you seldom see side-by-side racing. that's a central reason why mike and angie dirt-tracked ocala, and last friday, there were several races where the leaders were side by side for laps.

would that work in orlando? dunno. orange county next door never caught on and eventually died, tho is was indeed a much smaller track. but a lot of people will think: dirt track at that address was tried, and failed.

for a city the size of orlando not to be able to produce more than 300 or 400 race fans for a weekly show, ever a mediocre one, is inexplicable. racers at other tracks seem to bring more friends and family to the grandstands... maybe just my perception, and even if its true, i dont know how to fix it. half the crowd at citrus seem to be friends and family.

i dont want to lose orlando, but i dont know what to do -- in the worst economy in my lifetime -- to get more people and cars there. if i had to guess, i'd say: $5 gate, $3 coke-and-hot dog combo. try to get with a radio station and any other media to co-op advertising... give us some spots, and you can be our official station, and help with contests -- listener contests (win a ride in a race car, a petty experience, whatever).

with ocala dirt, every pavement race car in the state of florida is available friday nights. how to get them to come to orlando? i dunno.

but i do think there's a big gap in orlando's lineup: a class below super stocks, which cost almost as much as sportsman cars to run up front, and above strictly stocks... V-8 Camaros, Monte Carlos, maybe some newer V-6 cars -- a class where the cars actually look a little like race cars, instead of junkyard refugees, but with stock motors that dont have to make super stock horsepower.

just my 2 cents worth. i aint married to any of it if you have a better idea.

[Darren]

well

if they have low car count at both tracks and the same person or persons are the owner of both tracks then there has to be a reason that they do nothing to improve. Lets see what are some of the things that they keep doing over and over and over. Run the same nights, keep running the same classes over and over, recycling the same local people to run and work the tracks when if they wanted to improve and make money they could bring someone from up north (they know how to do everything better, in this case they might) with new ideas. Might be that someone needs a big tax write off.

[dd38]

The problem with running on Sunday afternoon is the HEAT!!! 97 degrees in East Orlando today. Then the rainy season will come. Have you ever been at Orlando during a thunder storm? You become a lighting target!

[Edm]

I have lived here for 20 years and have been rained out many of Friday nights.

[AB195]

I guess my point here earlier was that there is seemingly, (only seemingly) a systematic formula for failure and demise for any hot-shot captain/promoter to take the helm of the two battleships/raceways. Nothing really great can happen here, and it's not the promoters fault.
I pointed out two earlier promoters of SpeedWorld which had success, in my observations.
Orlando SpeedWorld and New Smyrna Speedways have both been recently paved. They are well groomed, clean and in super fine shape. It just seems that they are missing a some ingedients; full pits......which in turn bring in full grandstands. (enter the payouts, the teching and the treatments).
A FASCAR track covered over in dirt becomes another FASCAR track failing, I fear. Nothing will improve, and hasn't improved in 26 years. You can put red lipstick on a pig, and it's still just another pig.
I really like the two fine Raceways, and I hate to see anyone, or any facility fail. Big-time weekend local stock car racing is only a blip away for these two Raceways, it has always seemed.
Me, take the helm? My knowledge of the inner workings, and the political science of the drivers and pits would almost make it impossible. I'm a blue-collar man, small business owner, a tuna/hamberger helper kind-of guy, and to manage a Raceway would be way out of my league.
Somebody else can do it, I'm sure, and has the knowledge and recources to hang. Unless of course, a huge oppressive thumb squanders the living life out out of the Promoter.

[andre]

Find a Speedway Illustrated of this month and check the survey in there. Then compare with your local short track, and see how it does.

One of the best survey I have seen in a long time. Honest, down to earth questions. Really worth reading.

[AJ14]

Street stocks , and for that matter most lower classes , do not bring in crowds . Good racing , but people aren't driving thirty minutes and buying tickets to watch street stocks . And as Lakeland found out , people aren't showing up to see Super Late shows either .

Speedweeks at NSS brings in crowds . Crash A Ramas bring in crowds . The PRI races bring in crowds . School Bus figure 8s bring in crowds . The biggest crowd DeSoto ever had was the night that seven or eight Cup drivers were on hand to sign autographs . I think NSS has done the same type of thing with similar crowds . Why do fans happily show up for those events , but not weekly shows ? The tracks are not giving the fans a reason to show up . And lowering the ticket prices isn't going to entice somebody to go see a a crappy show .

All of the lower classes HAVE TO bring in the new body styles and engines . The modifieds have to start looking and running like the New England Tour cars . The Super Lates are going to have to be a once a month or once every three months show involving touring series to get a car count . Sprints and /or midgets are going to have to be scheduled once a month .

[dd38]

EDM, Where is HERE? I've lived in East Orlando for 42 years.

[AJ14]

Heres a couple of other things that need to change . One , the idea that fast race cars need to be slowed down by running on skinny , hard tires . The justification for treaded tires is that they last longer ( maybe, maybe not ) , and the big one is that they keep the " big motor cars " from hooking up , thereby leveling the playing field . Leveling the field for who ?
Lets take the modifieds for instance . If a modified team decides to go to Cope , or Crume , or Progressive for an engine , so what ? Its legal , so if they have the money to get an engine built by a pro , then let them . Some teams are always going to be faster than the others . Thats what auto racing is , going faster than the other guy . And in my opinion , 2 barrel carbs , and crate motors , and hard , skinny tires aren't racing . If the rules say that a motor must be totally stock , Cope , Crume , and Progressive can ( for a fee ) make more horsepower by blue printing the motor . So the same teams will still be faster . Chassis setup should play a major role ? Okay , but the biger teams are usually pretty good at that also . Racing is about going faster than the other guy .
And the truth is , racing is only going to be saved by much better payouts . I saw that Bronson had a modified show recently that paid $3000 to win . The weekly shows are going to have to start paying close to that to get new teams onto the track . The money for that is going to have to come from local and national participation . If you see a race on tv from Rockford , or Irwindale , or Eldora , you see billboards and prize money from many different sources . At most of the local tracks here in Florida , you see a handfull of billboards and almost no sponsor money involved . The lap money for the upcoming modified show at OSW should be a corporate name on each lap at $100 per lap .

[berbranon]

Clyde Hart bought OSW to put the circle track out of business and that is just what he did.

OSW is a goldmine. It is located in the best market of any circle track in the state. If any track has the potential to attract racers and fans, OSW does. If they opened it up on Saturday and ran it like they wanted it to succeed, it would.

NSS is a dog. It's too big and too fast for a Saturday night program. It cost too much to race there and it costs too much to wreck because you are going so fast. This is not a track where you can successfully run shows that pay $300 to $500 to win. It just doesn't make any sense to race there.

NSS should shut down the Saturday night program and run 8 to 10 regional touring programs a year. Then rent the track to cup teams and driving schools during the week. They would make more money.

Here's the formula that works. If you want racers to race, pay a purse that gives the winner a chance to make his money back. For instance, it cost $1200 to race a late model a night. If you want a full field you have to pay at least $1200 to win.

If you want fans, don't charge any more that it cost to go to a movie. That's what you are competing with, not the television. Movie theaters have known for years that they make their money off pop corn and cokes, not the admission.

And don't worry about your show running too long. Just try to make your show run smoothly. If one fan doesn't want to stay out past 10:30 no one says they can't leave but the real race fans, the ones that come every week, will come early and stay as long as you want to race.

Finally, forget all the talk about rule changes. If a driver thinks he's got a better idea, have him find 3 other drivers that agree and let them start their own class. All rule changes do is make your existing cars obsolete subsequently lowering the car count.

OSW and NSS are dying because the management makes rules to support the people they like but only enforce the rules on the people who they don't.

[Old Sunshine Fan]

I've Stayed Clear, But Here Goes -

Its been a while since I have gone to Orlando (and especially through the front gate).
However, the last time I went through the front, I was amazed at the poor appearance of the place. The ticket booth had broken windows and looked like it was about to fall over, the place looked it needed a great ovehaul in the stands as well.
APPEARANCE - APPEARANCE, a family NEW to racing, would not be ones to return (or suggest to other families NEW to racing) if they are not comfortable with the looks of the place or afaid their children would fall through a broken bleacher board / or can't hear the speakers.
Everyone is speaking about classes, numbers of cars, rules etc.. that is on the back side... tracks also need to look at the front side.. If tracks don't make it an interesting/fun night for the fans/families, they are missing half the punch. Putnam has (or had) a nice playground for kids, Bronson had fun houses and such at certain times.
How about this: Every fifth family that goes in (and passes the concession stand area) has their ticket price returned. But it won't do any good if not locally advertized.
In closing... look at the tracks that have nice appearances, then look at the ones that don't - which do you think families prefer?
"You Got To Spend Money To Make Money"

OSF:

[AJ14]

OSF hit another sore spot for fans and racers alike . The grandstands , the restrooms , the food stands , the retaining wall , the fencing , the pit area , and pit road . I always think of Martinsville when it comes to short tracks looking like they want your business. Retaining walls painted , lettering done correctly , not by a track worker wielding a 4 inch brush and a can of whatever color paint was in the shed . The fans notice these things , because they've seen Martinsville on tv and they know how a race track is supposed to look . And now we've seen Darlingtons walls , red and white . Looked great .
But Martinsville also has landscaping that is kept green and trimmed . The grandstands always have a fresh coat of paint , and no loose boards or splinters .
Come to think of it , lets just agree to use Martinsville as the model for what a short track should look like . There are plenty of photos of the place on the internet and in books . It would be very easy to see what it looks like and copy it over a year or so , a few things at a time .

[Darren]

the owner

of Martinsville is trying to make money not a tax write off.

[Jane]

I have seen everything from making Orlando dirt to having a Saturday show, a Sunday show, etc. on the board. I am truly sorry that the poster who originally posted this thread was so unhappy Friday night but bad nights do happen. I worked at Orlando for quite a few years and saw the car counts go up to almost 100 a night down to thirty something a night. So we have had good times there and bad.

Yes, Orlando should be packed every Friday night and when I first started going there back in the early 90's, it had pretty good fan counts as well as car counts. That is when they would run the enduro cars (4 cylinders) and Rose raced and ended up on her roof most of the time. That is where my kids, when they were little, got their first race car ride and everytime after that, Bruce Everett would make sure my kids went with him. They loved it. They would also give away trophies to the kids in the stands. Drivers brought them in when they were overloaded with trophies and the kids were given a ticket as they came in to win one. But most of the time, they had enough trophies to make sure the kids all went home happy.

Clyde was alive then and I once wrote him and asked him to introduce my daughter to David Rogers because she loved him so. Well, Clyde called her out of the stands one Saturday night at New Smyrna and made her day. She got to meet her hero, get a shirt, and ask him questions and that meant alot to a young girl. But Clyde was the man and he made sure that she got her wish.

Back then you could take your coolers in and food and that was about the only way my family could go. We could get the money to get in but not money for food for our crew of 4 kids. We would stop and get bread, sandwitch meat, chips and drinks. And every now and then, we could afford to buy one of the elephant ears they had at New Smyrna which was under the old grandstands. We had a ball and loved every minute of it. I really don't think we ever missed that many Friday or Saturday nights. We even went to that demo derby that was on tv at Orlando when they use to do that.

Over the years, I have watched her change. I have seen many drivers come and go. When I worked there with Rusty, I have seen the drivers bring in lots of fans when we would do the driver give-away free tickets and then reversed it and did the fans give-away tickets. We would go to local events and restaurants and show off the cars and give away tickets. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't but we did try our best.

Since going to dirt racing in March, I have noticed a few different things between the dirt tracks and asphalt.

1 - There are more open trailers than enclosed trailers which gives the fans a better chance of seeing the cars on the trailers. I don't know if they do this because they rather spend their money on their cars or what but most of the trailers are open trailers.
2. Fans are allowed to bring in coolers and drinks. They are not forced to buy racetrack food. This does help since many families can afford to get in but not buy food even though it is very reasonable.
3. They have nightly prizes for the fans which they love.
4. They also give them a card that is punched when they come in that earns them free entry for a race. Not sure if it is just a regular race or a special race but I see alot of the fans havng their cards punched each Saturday.
5. They say a prayer before the National Anthem which is very nice.
6. They only give the racers 5 laps of practice and that is it.
7. They have heat races and feature races and still get done at a reasonable time. They give the fans their money's worth every time.
8. Their payouts are alot higher than most asphalt tracks and they really don't have that many cars that are wrecked.
9. They only have double file restarts for one half of the feature race and then they go single file for the second half.
10. They appreciate their fans and take time to talk to them and answer questions.
11. They have a tech man who is fair and not connected to anyone at the track. There are no favorites and if you are wrong, you are wrong.
12. All cars must have a receiver and they are in constant touch with the tower. He lines them up, he gets on them if they are jumping the start, he thanks them for coming and thanks them for a good race. But he is in contact with every car, all divisions.

What is the solution for Orlando SpeedWorld, I wish I knew. I gave her many years of my love and I still care about what happens to her. I was there also Friday night and surprised by the low car count and fans in the stands. I know the drivers are disappointed also in the number of cars that aren't showing up and the small amount of fans. Maybe it is time to start calling the guys and asking them what is up, what it would take for them to come back and race. I really don't know but I know they are out there.