WHY a tire rule?

[georgep]

Prepping/soaking tires is THE biggest reason why we got out of Karts. Plus, don't forget you also had to have the right cut tire. Had to have ATLEAST 3 sets of tires and if you picked the wrong ones, it would be the difference between winning or running in the back. All of that so you could try to win a $6.00 trophy!!!!!

I agree and now they do it for $150.00 to win.
Look the only way to cure this is to mark the tire and MAKE THEM RUN that tire for X weeks PERIOD.
I know the game, gee that tire got popped at track X sorry I had to but another, snicker snicker. EASY they must PRODUCE that tire that need replacement. Nobody will kill a good tire for the heck of it.
ALSO yes the sniffer can be set to smell different rubbers and then tell you if the chem make-up was changed for the rubber. PROBLEM, it will also tell if you had PIZZA and picked up the tire. The sniffer is a great idea BUT if it is required to keep the field level than the will just cheat in another location.
The BEST way to stop the SOAKING is to only chack for it in random times. Caught with a soaked tire, goodbye points and see you in X races down the road.
Now you know why I like the vintage cars and the old way of doing things.

[AJ14]

I would think tires could be checked cold and then checked as the cars leave the track after the race . The alternative would be to legalize tire soaking so George could make some money with his product .
Either way , i still think open tire rules ( with a hardness rule and frequent , competent hardness testing ) is the best idea . If racers can save twenty to thirty dollars per tire on new tires , and can buy used tires of any brand , that will bring the costs of racing a little more toward what the average guy can afford .

[georgep]

I would think tires could be checked cold and then checked as the cars leave the track after the race . The alternative would be to legalize tire soaking so George could make some money with his product . Either way , i still think open tire rules ( with a hardness rule and frequent , competent hardness testing ) is the best idea . If racers can save twenty to thirty dollars per tire on new tires , and can buy used tires of any brand , that will bring the costs of racing a little more toward what the average guy can afford .

Not worth the effort to bottle, label and ship. I have been doing very well with our real line of products for the last 50 years. The BASE for the formula would put the price at around $175.00 per gallon with a gallon doing about 10 tires. The DOWNSIDE is that if you use TO MUCH you will make "GUMBALLS" as we called them back in the day. Or as my dad said 10 and DONE. Great for a hot lap for a pole run, not to good for over 10 laps. That is why it is called R&D with this stuff

[ronabneysr]

are you telling me that old vintage cars

that have been around a long time as the drivers also don't cheat and they don't soak there tires and i bet non of them have a tire rotisserie heh look bone head bet you did not think i could spell that right .. georgep was not talking about you ..

some times they get kinda picky if you don't cross your t's and dot your i's on here .. even them guys that have wheels on there homes

[georgep]

Let us CLEAR THE AIR
A CHEATER is a person dumb enough to get caught. Everyone else is just trying to get along, till they get caught.
There is with 100% guarantee that EVERY CAR has something that is not 100% legal.

[Sandy Nerone]

Don's Answer for AJ14

Some of you are not old enough to remember open tire rule, but I am and was a car owner. The ones of you who are should tell the rest. I am a tire dealer and probably should not respond but here we go again.

In 1970 Late Model tires on open rule became the fastest time and won and the price went to $225.00 per tire. In the 80's we came up with a tire rule that was open but they had to be available to the racer at the track for $70.00. Hoosier was the only one that supplied such a tire. The tire was not much but I thought it was a good deal. By the early 90's the racer and fan had enough of wrecked cars and not enough passing. The rule changed to a track tire...F60 Hoosier, then F45 then 1002 Goodyear and so on.

Here is the problem...this came up I remember in the 90's open tire rule for the Mini Stock Class came into effect. The racer demanded it. I let them learn on their own. In 6 weeks one (1) racer won all 6 races with a Street DOT tire. The price was $285.00 each and used 2 each week. Be careful what you wish for.

A tire rule is a necessity. It is not in effect for the Promoter, but to keep the racing on an even field. If dirt was on an open tire you would see a war. Dirt is not on an open tire.

Anyone testing tires should: 1) Test all Manufactures 2) Look at Availability 3) Will these tires work at this time 4) Will they repeat?

The treaded Hoosier they use at Desoto won't last 10 laps at New Smyrna. Any tire will last, but softer is better. Softer at NSS and OSW is slower.

Mike, I will be glad to get you some Hoosier's to test in your tire test, just let me know.

AJ14 if you would like to talk anymore about tires, call me at 386/547-5152.

Don Nerone

[AJ14]

Thanks for input Don . More track owners should participate in these forums , not for name calling , or self promotion ,or revenge , but to give racers and fans a better understanding of why things are the way they are . And , it just might be possible for a track owner to find out hes doing something wrong , or that he could be doing something better .
At any rate , heres my take on the subject of tire rules . You are correct about racers spending money to win . I know of some racers that rent tracks for testing two or three times a week . That can't be cost effective , but they do it because they can afford to . So for open tire rules to work , there would have to be some input from the track . That would be hardness testing , no soaking though as George pointed out , thats hard to police .
I do remember when the tire rules started , though my recollection is one of Hoosier pushing a tire rule for the same reason GM pushes the crate motor rule . Its self serving . I do know that times being what they are , the tire manufacturers would certainly be willing to compete for business if they were allowed to be at all race tracks . And competition ALWAYS brings better pricing . In fact they would also compete just for advertising and bragging rights . There are at least 5 viable race tire manufacturers out there . I don't want to take food out of anyones mouth , but if the racers were allowed to buy any tire from any dealer ( within the rules of width , hardness , etc . ) instead of the tracks being the middle man , i really feel the prices would drop .

[AJ14]

Regarding the fact that race tires do tend to work differently at different tracks , the racers at a specific track would quickly find out which 2 or 3 brands of tires did work and thats what they would use . If everyone knew that a DeSoto tire wouldn't work at NSS or Columbia , they wouldn't bring any with them .
If however someone from Desoto wanted to race at any other track in the state , or other states for that matter , he wouldn't have to buy any tires at all . He takes the tires he already owns . Maybe they work , maybe they don't . Or maybe he laps the field . What doesn't happen is , he doesn't spend money for tires he didn't even need just because a race track wants to force him to use their brand of tire at their price . Racers would much rather shop around , get a brand of tire that works , and get the best price available .
Now i don't think race tire manufacturers are stupid . I think if any manufacturer built a tire that was wildly superior , the others would have a new design out in no time to compete .

[georgep]

up in USAC land

I am up in Indiana and looked up the rules up here from USAC on tires.
Their stance accoding to rule #513
You pick a tire from an APPROVED LIST of SIZES and Compounds for EACH EVENT.
Also in #513
On Pavement IF you change the RR you go to the REAR.(these guys can change rubber under red) Other corners NO LOSS OF POSITION.
Also in #513
You soak the tires and you are Suspended for ONE YEAR and loss of ALL POINTS.
THey punch the tire BEFORE and AFTER the event they look HARD at the RR.
Thought you might want to know what other people do.

[dannyuscg]

I don't care what brand or compound it is, new or scuffed/used. I know I'm dreaming but I would like to see a $50 price limit imposed on a race tire. That would help a lot I think if you policed the price like you do the brand you will see a lot more cars. It's no fun when 3 tracks run the same tire but one charges $100 the next $95 and the third $108. Thats just my OPINION and no names were mentioned on purpose.

Danny

[AJ14]

I have no idea how much it costs to make a race tire . I doubt there is enough profit margin for race tires ( at least ones that are safe, and good quality ) to sell for $50 . But if the tire rules are opened up so that all of the tire manufacturers can compete for business they just might get close to $50 dollars .
And to go back to Don Nerones' post , race tracks used to set prices . A racer could use any tire as long as it cost less than X dollars . Part of the selling point that Hoosier used all those years ago , was that they could produce a tire that worked ,and lasted for a low price . The hitch was that the track had to agree to use only Hoosiers .
Now if tracks demand that race tires can cost no more than , say , $ 85 dollars each ( no matter what the brand ) and they have to conform to the tracks specs for width , hardness , diameter etc . the tire companies will build them . Thats if all of the tracks stick together . Imagine being able to race anywhere without having to buy a different brand of tire or a tire stamp .

[ronabneysr]

i remember ever thing don nerone said -- here is more

doe's any body remember the tire store down on florida ave or was it nebraska ave in tampa called iv's tires you could go down there and buy your tires don't quote me i think 35 .00 and didn't he recap them also

and then he had a competitor over in drew park that sold recap racing tires the more they ran the better they got and you could run them down to core then they had a tire called hpt dam if i ever knew what that stood for but you could hit wall and bend wheel and still use the tire they were 30 .00 yeah that was hundred years ago '' m-h tires -- race master - and bunch different tires old iv was a character and if you did not have money with you he had little book in shirt pocket with his tire gage and tape and ten pencils

i aint that old some one told me this ok ron abney sr maybee it was johnny hicks or frank deary