Nascar "development" deals...

[Frasson118]

Is it such a good deal after all?

Whatever happened to Bobby East? He got put into a "driver developement' deal, and faded away pretty quickly. I'm not so sure those deals are all they're cracked up to be. If you don't make it to where you're going, you lose out on where you where.

Timmy McCreadie, Bobby East, Kraig Kinser, Chuck Hossfeld, all got dumped, and Erin Crocker would have if she wasn't sleeping with the boss. They all were VERY successful in their short-track careers. Meanwhile, bums like David Ragan, Paul Menard, David Gilliland, Regan Smith, and Ricky Carmichael are all well funded, making a gang of money, and never accomplished a damn thing on 4 wheels. Take the 5 bums out, and put the 5 RACERS in, and Nascar might have something worth watching again.

Indy racing went through the same thing 15 years ago... out went Mears, Unser, Foyt, Johncock, Rahal and Andretti. In came Raul Boesel, Stephane Gregoire, Michel Jourdain, Bruno Junquiera and Hiro Matsushita. The whole division went right down the tubes.

Now Nascar is gaining Juan-Pablo Montoya, Jacques Villeneuve, Patrick Carpentier, and Sam Hornish.... name the last race you went to that someone was wearing a Carpentier T-shirt? At the same time, we are losing Rudd, Jarrett, Nemechek, Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin and (a few years ago)Darrell Waltrip. All of those guys brought FANS with them.

Nascar is so busy patting themselves on the back because F-1 and Indy drivers are jumping on board, that they've become blind that there are NO FANS following them in.

Don't get me wrong here before you jump down my throat... there is a LOT of talent in the guys that are coming in, but whose watching? I guarantee that Scott Bloomquist, Steve Kinser, Danny Lasoski, Brett Hearn, Bobby Santos, Eddie Hoffman, Ben Rowe and dozens more would bring a lot more fans to the tracks and in front of the tube than ANY of the F-1 & Indy car guys will.
Hell, Jeff Choquette has more fans than Patrick Carpentier!

What good is a development deal if all the rides are going to the already rich, famous or family connected. Thankfully, a few drivers recently "got there" because of talent alone. Carl Edwards, Denny Hamlin and Clint Bowyer are all a success even without all the other connections. None were rich, famous or connected... but they were TALENTED.

[HaudFan]

Thought Bobby East just got the driver development deal. Believe he ran USAC mainly this year. Let's also throw out the names Bryan Clausen (Ganassi development) and Kevin Swindell (Evernham development). I know Swindell spent the year driving USAC cars for Kasey Kahne. The word on the street is Swindell is out at KKR and replaced by Brad Sweet...Kraig Kinser got hosed in the whole Ginn/DEI merger. However landing the #20 Bass Pro ride on the World of Outlaws isn't a bad deal.

Bottom line is that the driver development deals are a joke! And napcar has turned into the 800 lbs gorilla that can't be tamed. Napcar fans are no longer race fans...Grass roots, short track RACING is where its at!

[Benny The Mule]

Bring a sponsor$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, you get a ride. It's all about money. I have gotten to know a couple of the (bums) listed above personally. And boyer brought jack daniels with him from his modified, though he certainly HAS talent. What about Amirolla and the famed diversity program? Hell, they came right out and told Boyd he didn't have enough $$$$$ to offer.

[Winger]

I've been wondering the same thing Jerry. I'm trying to figure out what the owners get out of the "driver development programs". I've been trying to follow Tim McCreadie since he got his deal but don't find much. I've seen him in a few races but that's it.

[Camel Toe racing]

Well I'm pretty sure T-Mac can get his ride back w/Sweeteners because he's still pretty good friends/w Vic Coffey.I watched Erin Crocker run in the ELS up north and trust me she didn't impress me at all.I don't know what Evernham sees in that beauty!!LOL

[palmbayer]

Dave Blaney was the first Jack Daniels driver...the only thing he brought to the table was his helmet. according to him he didnt leave with much more than that. talent got him into the CAT car also ....better pay check too.

I make my living with NASCAR and also find it a JOKE.

BUT

other than Menard, who in the top level has "bought" a ride last season? Benny, I don't see it.

[derf]

T-mac finished in the top 15-20 in two of the races that I remember.for someone who has only raced on asphalt one or two times in a late model that's not bad.some of these guys are getting signed in but really don't have anywhere to go.on the other hand there are some of these guys that don't qualify to be in some of the seat they're in,whether it's truck,busch/nation wide,or cup.

[JackTripper]

Since when did Tim McCreadie lose his RCR deal? I haven't read anything saying RCR dropped him for next year.

[Frasson118]

Just a few things I wanna clear up here:

Palmbayer is exactly right... Bowyer did NOT bring Jack Danield in... Childress did, and he figured Blaneys talent would maybe get that team on track, as he is known as a good qualifier (sp?). Look at this year. He got a Pole for the Cat tam, and was consistantly one of the best Toyota drivers. Richard gave up way too soon on Blaney.

I didn't mean to infer that the new crop of Indy drivers "bought" there way in... they did get in with talent, but did they bring any kind of fan base with them? Hornish and Helio Castro Neves are about the only 2 with any kind of drawing power. If Helio went Nascar, I WOULD be a fan and proudly wear the T-shirt saying so. He's the John Force of Indy car racing... people just LOVE the guy, for both talent and personality.

As for Aric Almirola, he did NOT bring a wad of cash to the table to get a foot in the door. I like Aric and have respect for his talents behind the wheel, but he didn't win a bunch of races to get him where he is. Hell, his grandfather, Sam Rodriguez was a bad-ass Sprint car driver in his time, but that didn't get HIM in. But Aric got a break when Nascar got an ass-chewing from Jesse Jackson and the NAACP for not having enough minorities and females involved in thier sport. Don't think I'm any kind of racist or sexist, but Nascar did the "diversity program" because it was forced on them... not because they were the ones who thought of it first. Double edged sword here... at the same time they are getting pressure to "diversify", they also want to increase their viewership among females and minorities. Who loses? The people that have spent their entire lives trying to get a "shot" at the big time, but get bumped out so that others can be politically correct.

As for T-Mac... he's already over 30. He was impressive in everything he's done in racing... good looking, great speaker, spiked hair-do... BUT, he's over 30! This is a guy that could make a lot of people tune in on Sundays, but the morons in charge don't see it. As smart as Childress is, he blew this opportunity completely (twice in 2 years!)

HaudFan... No there hasn't been an "official announcement" of his dismissal, but that's the way it works. Hire someone, it's big news... fire someone, it gets swept under the carpet. Halfway through next year people will start wondering "What happened to McCreadie"

I'm no expert on these things, but I try to be somewhat observant of the trends. And I don't like one bit the direction things are going at the "top" of the ladder.

If it weren't for Dirt Late Models, Sprint cars and Modifieds, there would be NO oval track racing worth following!


Dammit... once again, I wrote a novel, and didn't mean to !

[Frasson118]

Correction on the Tim McCredie info. He has not been fired. Childress is trying to line up a sponsor to run Tim in either a part or full time ride next year. If it falls through, he will be back in the Sweeteners Plus DLM.
His team mate at Sweeteners, Vic Coffey, is going DLM racing full time next year. Danny Johnson, another DIRT Big Block racer will be spending considerable time in a DLM as well in '08.

[carolwicks]

Bums?

im reading all this and i do agree with alot of it. however... calling these gentlemen bums is totally out of line. ive met RICKY CARMICHAEL on a few occasions as have millions of people all over the country. Maybe he isnt the best driver in stock car racing yet. he is learning. however... Ricky is the furthest person from a bum of most anyone i know.... he is a clean cut, hard working young man who has never ever acted spoiled or better than anyone. he is honest, caring, and willing to learn. it is hard to believe he is "wealthy" because when you are with him he never acts anything but friendly and polite and well grounded.. he is a god to youngsters and he will stay at a track until the last kid is satisfied with their meeting. Mark Martin saw something in Ricky and he chose to select him as his driver in the Monster car. Mark is one of the most respected drivers in NASCAR so i cannot see him selecting a "bum".
Mike Fritts is on board as crew chief.... Mike is one of the most respected SLM drivers in the state of florida. a fine man ... he chose to be part of the Carmichael crew.... i am not raising my voice or trying to start a war but i AM against calling people names. especially when they dont deserve it.
i believe one day Ricky will race a car in the same way he raced a motorcycle! just like anyone else he needs seat time and he will excel because that is what he is made of! go ahead and blast me. i dont care! ;-)
carolwicks

[JackTripper]

Frasson, I think you're on to something with Tim McCreadie (I refuse to call him T-Mac, that is reserved for the one and only Terry McCarl ) as Bobby Labonte was named to compete in 15 races next season for RCR in the #21 car. And then the end of the press release states that "its 2008 Nationwide Series lineup includes Clint Bowyer (No. 2 BB&T), Bobby Labonte (No. 21 Chevrolet) and Burton and Scott Wimmer (No. 29 Holiday Inn)."

Let's be frank regarding Mr. Motorcross, Mark Martin didn't select him to drive his late model. Carmichael signed with the former Ginn team as a development driver. Mark, a Ginn driver, had a late model team sitting there that apparently his kid doesn't want to drive for, so boom, Carmichael to Martin's cars. Don't get me wrong, it's totally the right thing to do and Carmichael seems like a nice guy (at least when I've talked to him) and learning quick, but Martin didn't exactly "select him as his driver in the Monster car" like he was on a hunt for a new driver for that ride.

[Frasson118]

I figured there was some tie in ($$$) between Carmichael, Martin and Ginn. Since Matt Martin apparently doesn't want to live his fathers dream, there was a garage full of race-ready equipment, haulers, mechanics, etc.., might as well collect a check from Bobby Ginn & Monster, rather than selling the stuff of at a big loss.
Have you heard that Carmichael is now moving to the Busch East series (assuming all the right contracts get signed)? I know the guy is loaded with 2-wheel talent, and is supposed to be a very nice guy, but what has he accomplished on 4-wheels? He's had more wrecks than finishes. He is NOT ready for that move... but once again, he has the connections and the name. Talent has nothing to do with the "promotion". But he gets the chance to battle door-to-door with Michelle Theriault for 23rd place!

Meanwhile, McCreadie (who can win in anything) gets the back-burner. The politics in Nascar suck!

[bubba]

Carmichael is a nice guy, and seems like a pretty cool guy to be around, but 4-wheel talent is not there. Will it ever be, who knows. I think the point to the original post was that there is sooo much talent out there untapped due to financial or circumstancial situations that it is hard to swallow those that have connections getting the rides over them.

Like everything in life, though, it aint fair, but it is the way it goes. The reality is talent alone does not a multimillion dollar sponsorship make. Too bad, NASCAR would be a whole lot more interesting if it did.

[Frasson118]

Carol... no need to get all bent out of shape. Maybe calling Carmichael a bum was a bad choice of words. But I do stand behind my opinion. He has done nothing in a 4-wheeled vehicle that should let him skip all the schools and instead go straight to Harvard.
Mark Martin did not "choose" Ricky. It was all part of the Bobby Ginn, Monster Energy tie-in, and Mark happens to have all the toys sitting there that his son doesn't want to play with anymore. Believe this... it is NOT Mark Martin's money and faith in Ricky that is funding this.
As for Mike Fritts... great crew chief, well respected, all around great guy. But, he also happens to be a full-time crew chief for a living. He's on that team because it earns him a steady paycheck. Do you really think he believes in Ricky enough to do it for free? Wayne Anderson is in the same boat. He earns his living from racing, which is why he is currenly working with Ryan Seig... because it PAYS to do it. It's not bcause he has so much belief in the kid that he'd park his own cars to crew chief for him. For both of these guys, it's all about business, not faith in someone else's abilities.

My point is this.... between David Gilliland, David Ragan, Paul Menard, Regan Smith, and Ricky Carmichael, the total number of wins of any kind of importance, is ONE. Compare that to Scott Bloomquist, Brett Hearn, Billy Pauch, Steve Kinser, and even Wayne and Dick Anderson. There are over 2000 wins between them. You tell me... who DESERVES a chance, and who just plain got the silver spoon treatment?

The system sucks, and drivers without talent, that only have connections, the whole Nascar deal is becoming a joke. Ricky might someday earn his way to the top. So far, he hasn't.

My complaint isn't about personalities... it's about talent!